Total Control
Yesterday we mentioned that it is extremely hard and time consuming to investigate things such as oversigning. While there is a ton of information on the Internet, if you look hard enough, there seems to be a void in the main stream media with regards to investigative reporting. Sure ESPN has OTL, but whatever happened to the beat reporters who did more than write up a practice report and include a couple of meaningless quotes?
Paul Finebaum has a theory on this:
"With the newspaper industry under siege and cutbacks literally being made at every corner, a reporter covering Meyer or anyone else really can ill afford to spend time in the doghouse. Otherwise, he or she will be left out in the cold when the pack goes on the next scavenger hunt for whatever scraps are still fed to those on the daily beat.
I spoke recently to an official at a major BCS school and he openly scoffed at the beat reporters covering his team. The person told me his school could completely cut off access to the reporters and still get practically the same message out to the public by delivering it themselves.
This isn't the good old days when most doors were wide open. Nowadays, there is such tight control over most programs that the average fan can learn almost as much sitting in front of computer in Muscle Shoals or Mobile, watching the press conferences live, or being force fed exactly what the school wants them to see and read.
Many beat reporters have been reduced to nothing more than stenographers. They are emailed releases which are posted on the Internet in quickly rewritten blogs. Sometimes, they are published verbatim. Rarely, if ever, does anything get out the school doesn't want out.
That's why the textbook investigation at Alabama went undetected for a year while the process played out -- including a secret appearance before the NCAA Committee on Infractions. It was done so to protect recruiting and worked like a charm.
And by the way, this is all just fine with the fans who don't really know or can't tell the difference between a legitimate story and something sent out by a member of the school's publicity staff. People neither trust the media nor particularly like the media anymore. Some of this is self-inflicted. Most of this results from the times in which we live."
http://blog.al.com/press-register-sports/2010/03/finebaum_urban_meyer_outburst.html
If you don't read anything else on this site, we encourage you to at least read Finebaum's full article linked above. It might shed some light as to why we don't hear more stories about players being cut and oversigning.
The truth of the matter is that beat reporters should be posted outside of certain schools demanding answers on roster cuts and oversigning, but the reality of the situation is that none of them can afford to be cut off, such as the poor guy from the Orlando Sentinel who had to cower down to Urban Meyer and then was forced to accept a private apology.
If a reporter almost gets banned from practice for quoting a player, could you imagine what would happen if he really took Urban Meyer to task on his practice of oversigning players or about the huge number of arrests by his players? Forget about it, that guy would be done.
The bottom line here is that the coaches and the schools are going to control what message gets sent out, and it's up to us as fans and followers of the sport to dig deeper for the facts and expose the truth. Hopefully, in some way we can do that here with the topic of oversigning. We're not professional writers and we're not being paid to do investigative work, but we care about college football and we can write whatever we want without fear of economic security. And maybe with your help we can continue to put a spotlight on oversigning until it is completely removed.
Against Oversigning
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2011 Oversigning Cup
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Oversigning.com on Twitter
- @GerdOzone imagine what that number would be had he oversigned at the rate of Saban/Miles/Nutt/Petrino.
- @greggdoyelcbs someone tell the NCAA to call me.
- Fwiw, I just wanted to ban oversigning, you guys.
- @BryanDFischer @andrewjbone remind me again how many guys were in that 2008 class and how many had to be cut to make room for them all.
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March 31st, 2010 - 21:19
What I read is because beat reporters try to create something that is not there they are no longer considered credible, just like with this site. You make wild assumptions about UA but yet feel justified to create your own truth. Just like in one of your statements you directly imply that Star Jackson’s academic issues are because Saban needs to cut him to get under 85, but maybe it is the truth and you just need to create something to stir the pot and make more false accusations. See the problem when you create false assumptions is when they turn out not to be true. BTW in case you were curious Star Jackson is back practicing with the team and not a casuality of Saban’s death march to 85 as you implied was the case.
March 31st, 2010 - 21:37
Jackson has a long ways to go and I will be shocked if he is still on the roster come August. There is nothing presumptuous about our comments on Saban and Alabama’s roster situation. The bottom line is that 7 players have to find their way out of scholarships before August via medical hardships, transferring, gray-shirting and paying their own way, becoming academically ineligible, being arrested, or just plain asked to leave. Those are facts, not assumptions.
Now I can give you a list of 25 schools where this will not happen this spring and summer – can you give me a list of 25 BCS schools outside of the SEC where it will? Here’s a hint, don’t bother researching teams in the ACC (outside of UNC or Miami), the Big 10, or the Pac 10. You might want to look at the Big 12 and the Big East, and even then I doubt you find 10 schools that are 7 players over the limit of 85 right now and looking to shift guys around.
I don’t see what is so hard to understand here. If you have 66 players coming back at the end of the season because they have a year or more of eligibility left, then you get to sign 19 new players to letters of intent. It’s not rocket science. 66+19=85. If some of the 19 don’t make it academically it should be on the coach for taking a risk on them; if some of the existing 66 are injured during spring and summer practice it’s on the coach to get by until next year.
April 1st, 2010 - 11:39
It is a blessing that some coahes are willing to give these players a chance even if they barely qualify to get in. Just because some struggles in the clasroom should not be an excuse not to recruit a player.
The bottom line here is not that you are upset with oversigning but that you use it as an excuse why UA or other SEC schools prevail when OSU does not. Even recently an OSU got on here and commented on that. I do not mind you r constant attacks on UA or Saban it just shows why this site was established. See no matter what you write and presume nothing illegal or against any rule has taken place. Only your opinion that it is wrong.
Yes the fact is Saban will have to open up some scholarships or players with have to pay their own way. You contiually write garbage about why you think they leave, but have no facts other than your opinion. The only facts that are true and the only ones that should concern anyone is two things. One these players were offered an opportunity to get a college education and two the opportunity to play football. Every time you talk about a player at UA you make it look like they got screwed on what they were promised. But they were not. Yes a few were kicked off the team because of legal problems, but I guess if you get arrested at OSU they would keep you based on what you are saying. If a player does not keep up academic maybe that is all it is, unlike your continued conspiracy of Saban. Just a little info every school in the country has academic casualities and not one school that I know of is graduating 100% of its players including OSU. So does that go back on your beloved caoch. I doubt it in your mind OSU is the ideal school that everyone should want to be like.
In regards to most of your recent rants lets talk about them. T Grant so what, he had the opportunity to play and could not beat other players. Did he get screwed the way you make out to be, NO. He still graduated just like numerous players from last year that were removed from the team but yet they still graduated. The only players that did not get kicked off from the team for legal issues or graduated anyway transferred to another program where they are playing. So why is this such a concern of yours. These players got what they wanted in the end.
All I see is a OSU fan making excuses over and over about a practice that is not against any rule. Meaning it is legal to oversign and trim rosters. No matter how you spin it will continue to happen. And like the OSU fan that posted the other day, the site would have more merit if you would stop praising OSU and criticizing UA. I understand some do not like the practice but you just use it to imply the only reason UA won the title or that Saban is successful is because he cheats by using this practice and insinuate that since OSU and other big-10 schools do not they have a disadvantage. Remember they could if they wanted but decide not to.
Maybe one day I will come to this site and see something of value but right now I read to find humor at an upset fan trying to sell his conspiracy theory. It is like reading a good novel, but really no value other than hearing your opinion. So I guess I can understand why you support the beat writers that write garbage. Like them you create news that really isn’t and try to spin it in a manner to get people riled up.
In regards to oversigning or diffferent practices used by coaches to be creative in how they maximize their resources that does intrigue me but to hear it with a slant from an upset fan sorry it does not bode well. Save that for watercooler talk for other OSU fans who might buy into the conspiracy.
In regards to OSU being successful I hope the prediction of them and UA in the BCS title game this year comes to life. I think it would be a great game to watch between 2 great programs, but if UA lost the game it is just because OSU was better not some conspiracy I conjour to feel better about myself and a team. The best part of this site is I now want to become a member of the REC. Which all non UA fans in the SEC believe control the outcome of all SEC matches.
Again thank you for the story but time to get back to reality.
April 2nd, 2010 - 15:56
SoccerMike…
“It is a blessing that some coahes are willing to give these players a chance even if they barely qualify to get in. Just because some struggles in the clasroom should not be an excuse not to recruit a player.”
So you are saying that all of them should get preferential treatment since they are good athletes, yet dumb as a box of rocks…or kind of dumb as a box of rocks…or actually intelligent and didnt give a enough effort in the classroom as they did on the football field. I can understand this being an exception to the rule, but in the SEC (with the exception of an obvious school) it is the rule. I mean I understand that all of the SEC coaches are up for the Houston Nutt Humanitarian Award for getting kids into Junior Colleges.
Sorry Mike, you are as blind as the SEC is corrupt, but your futile attempts of defending something that is un-defendable is quite entertaining…even to half of the Ole Miss recruiting class that is getting ready to enroll at the Olive Branch Community College.
April 3rd, 2010 - 12:14
Blind to what, a practice you do not like, again nothing illegal. Just another fan trying to make excuses for your school of why they can not compete with the SEC. Also my attempts are not futile because the SEC has nothing to defend since they do nothing wrong. What is futile is Big-10 fans that use bias to support a website to imply one team or conference gains an unfair advantage.
Also in regards to character lets ask what people think about th 14+ arrested at MSU. Maybe schools in the big-10 should re-evualate how they recruit. Lets see a student who struggled in the classroom or a felon. I guess I will take the SEC on their practices.
April 3rd, 2010 - 13:58
If there is nothing wrong with oversigning, then why did the SEC create a limit on it? Huston Nutt signed 37 kids the year before last, if there is nothing wrong with then why the limit? The truth of the matter is that there is something wrong with it, illegal no, wrong yes. And hopefully, something will be done about it…my sincere hope is that with this site, and with the help of others who write about it and investigate it, we can increase awareness and put an end to the practice of oversigning.
With regards to your comments about MSU and the 14 arrests, it should be noted that Mark Dantonio only signed 88 players over the last 4 years to Saban’s 113. It should also be noted that Alabama won the Fulmer Cup in 2008 with the most arrests of any school in the country. That year alone Alabama had 28 points to Michigan State’s 3 (granted these numbers only include arrests during the off season and the incident at MSU happened during the season). Regardless, I think you have forgotten about Alabama’s recent history with arrests.
http://www.sportsargumentwiki.com/index.php?title=Fulmer_Cup_2008
And further, not that we are looking to get into a pissing contest with you because that is not what this site is about, but the SEC leads all conferences in Fulmer Cup points with 253 points to the Big 10′s 203. And Alabama is ranked 4th all time with 37 career points.
April 3rd, 2010 - 15:07
Everything Nick Saban does is about gaining a competitive advantage, to think otherwise is simply naive and blatant homerism. Nick Saban is not oversigning kids because he stives to be a humanitarian; if that were the case he wouldn’t live in a 4 Million Dollar house and he would give all of money away.
April 4th, 2010 - 15:12
Saban was brought in to win championships and that is what he is doing. Just because you do not like his practices or other SEC schools ways of doing do not make it wrong. Yes I understand and hear our opinion but that is all it is and nothing more. The only thing that might ever happen with it is that the NCAA puts a 28 limit for all schools, other than that you are blind if you think anything else is going to get done. Again it might be wrong by some peoples opinon based on exploiting talent or whatever but as long as it can be done it will.
And you are right that Saban is about gaining an advantage on the field if one is there. Sorry that your beloved OSU coach does not and hence why they are not currently a national contender. If OSU did you probably wouldn’t be on your soapbox screaming across the rooftops about it. The one thing I do know is that Saban can coach for you to imply that he has to cheaqt to do so or for the SEC to successful has to cheat just shows your ingorance regarding CFB.
And if you like I can post numbers regarding another arguement we had before that demonstrates that most players do prefer the SEC over the big-10, including players from the mid-west. The fact is the SEC is the place to be right now for CFB and the players know it.
April 6th, 2010 - 19:46
jealous any??
April 6th, 2010 - 23:54
I would be pissed too if I were a Buckeye fan
April 12th, 2010 - 00:19
Over signing is a real problem and some coaches (not all) are gaming the system. To be competitive in the SEC, other coaches are having to step up and match Saban’s questionable ethics, which was creating the over signing pandemic. The SEC responded by creating the limit of 28. And Alabama responded with Bryant scholarships and Medical Hardships. All true. But, I’d be careful about quoting Paul Finebaum. He’s a bama homer and referred to as a “third rate hack” by CBS Sports. He’s written plenty of half-truths in his time and, frankly, is on a lower moral ground than his favorite coach, the “I’m not going to be the Alabama coach” coach of Alabama. If you doubt what I’ve typed, just follow the links. Its all true.
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj116/cfbsigs/AUPPL/finebaum.jpg
http://www.cbssports.com/columns/story/11969264
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2718488
April 14th, 2010 - 12:31
Another upset fan at the success of UA. Again when you try and make an arguement please use facts not opinion but I understand some use emotion when there team is lacking. To the above ignorant fan who should understand that the Bryant scholarship was actually started because of a TCU player.
Bear’s gift to a rival
Son of TCU player paralyzed against UA in ’74 is granted Bryant Scholarship
Sunday, June 11, 2006
RAY MELICK
News staff writer
From the first day Kent Waldrep met the legend until just before the legend died, the phone calls kept coming.
They started in 1974 after Waldrep, then a football player for Texas Christian University, was paralyzed in a game against the University of Alabama at Legion Field. The last call from legendary Alabama coach Paul “Bear” Bryant came barely two months before Bryant’s death in January 1983.
“At least once every three or four months, I’d pick up the phone and it’d be Coach Bryant,” Waldrep recalled. “He’d say, ‘What’s going on, Kent? How’s therapy coming? Are you working hard every day?’”
Waldrep figured that last call from Bryant was his final connection to the Capstone. It wasn’t.
In April, the 52-year-old Dallas resident got a call from Athletics Director Mal Moore, who told him that Waldrep’s son Trey was going to receive a Bryant Scholarship to attend Alabama.
“I just felt like this was another way Coach Bryant was reaching out,” Waldrep said.
This one’s different
In 1973, Bryant established an endowed scholarship fund that has benefited primarily the children of his former players. School officials estimate that 500 students have received a Bryant Scholarship, including 100 this past year.
But this one is different. Kent Waldrep never played for Bryant; he played against him.
Longtime Alabama fans know the story. In October 1974, TCU visited Legion Field. While running a sweep play, the junior running back got caught up in a wall of players and fell awkwardly on the artificial surface. He suffered a broken neck, leaving him paralyzed.
The injury deeply affected Bryant, who did not go back to Tuscaloosa with the team after the game, a 41-3 Alabama victory. Bryant went straight to the hospital for the first of many visits with Waldrep.
“That was the only time I know of that Coach didn’t come back with the team,” said Clem Gryska, a Tide assistant coach at the time.
Trey Waldrep’s scholarship marks the first time the child of a Tide opponent has received a Bryant Scholarship.
“It’s a good thing,” said Paul Bryant Jr., the coach’s son and the administrator of the Bryant endowment fund. “Our former players think so, too. … It affected everyone on that team, because it happened right in front of them. I remember it well. It certainly affected Papa.”
So I am sorry that so many people misunderstand this and btw it was astablished long before Saban was coaching at UA.
In regards to medical scholarships they have been around for a long time also even at UA. Michael Protho was on one before Saban got there, so again just like this site another fan who argues based on opinion.
Since some seem to unaware of why the SEC imposed the rule, it was not because of Saban but Houston Nutt, hence why they call it the Nutt rule. But again as demonstrated by the above poster opinion matters and not facts.
In regards to Moral gorund, lets play football in the Big-10. We can sit in jail for a crime and the team holds our spot for us.
April 14th, 2010 - 14:07
No one is questioning whether or not Bryant did a good thing in setting up the scholarship trust fund; it was a great thing, one of the best things he ever did for the university. The only issue we have with it is where it relates to the football team. This problem has another simple solution, just like oversigning. The NCAA needs to remove the clause about Bryant scholarship recipients not counting towards the 85 limit as long as they are considered as not recruited by the football team. Bryant scholarship recipients should count towards the 85 limit the minute they do anything football related, just like someone on a track scholarship. It’s just that simple.
This is yet another loophole that Saban has been able to use to make his oversigned classes work out and stay within the 85 roster limit.
What program wouldn’t want the ability to have someone participate with the football team on scholarship but not count towards the 85 limit? Right now, Alabama is the only school that has that ability.
Again, I think the Bryant scholarship is a wonderful thing that was created for all the right reasons and has served many families very well, but when you are dealing with college football and millions and millions of dollars, there has to be a consistent set of rules for everyone to follow.
April 14th, 2010 - 19:12
Again it was there was being used by UA coaches long before Saban showed up. Your comment again eludes to the fact you do not like Saban.
April 14th, 2010 - 19:21
Also again when posting please use facts not opinion to support your dislike towards a coach or a team. The Bryant Scholarship does count even though some on here fail to research it.
“For a recruited walk-on, a student-athlete who was recruited by UA and who receives institutional financial aid granted without regard in any degree to athletics ability (i.e. the Bryant Scholarship), that student-athlete does not have to be counted until he engages in varsity intercollegiate competition.
“If the student-athlete does engage in varsity intercollegiate competition, the student-athlete becomes a counter.”
if the walk-on in question is judged to have been “non-recruited” by the NCAA, then he can play whenever he wants–even in the first game of his first
It might delay when they are being counted but they will count if they participate if they were recruited. Just like any many awarded that is not athletically tied to a sport. If the player is recruited but walks on and receives nonathletic money he will become a counter. If the player is never recruited and walkson no matter where the money came unless athletic he will never count. Those are the rules. Maybe this website should go after the NCAA not a coach or program.
Maybe this link will provide some info for those who argue something based on their own opinion that really has no merit. Again nothing done wrong and no rules are broken. This would also be the same case for any student at OSU that walkson and receives money from other than athletics. IT COULD HAPPEN AT ANY SCHOOL IN THE COUNTRY AND WOULD BE LEGAL.
http://alabama.scout.com/2/226526.html
April 15th, 2010 - 13:13
You must have missed our comments regarding that exact same article that we have already read a dozen times, and by the way, we quoted the entire section of the article, not just bits and pieces of it like did above.
http://oversigning.com/testing/index.php/2010/03/28/march-to-85-watch-list/#comments
Allow me to finish the rest of the quote you are using above where you stop with the word “first”…the rest of that sentence from that article goes like this:
“… game of his first semester–and not count against Alabama’s scholarship numbers.”
Therefore, we were correct in stating that in some cases Bryant Scholarship recipients are able to play right away and not count towards the 85 limit. And for the record, that is different than any other scholarship program in the country. If a guy on a track scholarship practices with the football team becomes a counter towards the 85 limit.
Bottom line – Bryant Scholarship recipients should count towards the 85 limit the very first time they do anything football related, period.
As for the rest of your gibberish, I can barely understand what you wrote…honestly it sounds like the ramblings of a madman.