Oversigning.com
25May/1025

Most Kids Won’t Talk

One of the arguments we hear a lot is that until a former player comes out and publicly admits that he was cut and gives all the dirty little details about being cut then there is really no harm in what is being done.   First of all, that is a bogus argument in an attempt to justify something that is not justifiable.  Secondly, there are a number of reasons why players do not come out and publicly bash a coach for cutting him, or politely suggesting that they should find a new home and transfer.

1. The player still has eligibility and still needs to find a new home - bashing a coach is not exactly the best way to help that process along.

2. Chances are that the player really loves the program and the people he is leaving behind and doesn't want to say anything negatively.

3. Who wants to come out and admit that they were cut because they weren't good enough?

These are all speculative reasons, as no one really knows why players don't come out more and speak openly about being cut or asked to transfer.

John Taylor at NBC sports wrote a short article about one player being removed from the team for "violating team rules."

Former Alabama defensive back Alonzo Lawrence has found a home at Southern Miss, the Hattiesburg American is reporting.

Lawrence began looking into transferring last month, and had considered several in-state schools before deciding on USM. After sitting out the 2009 season, Lawrence will have three years of eligibility remaining.

"I'll sit out and learn the playbook," Lawrence said. "By the time I get out there, I'll know what's going on."

Lawrence was one of four players Nick Saban mentioned by name as having been removed from the program for violating team rules.

The DB denied any type of wrongdoing, but refused to get into a war of words with his former program.

"That's something that isn't true, but I'm not going to say anything about that," Lawrence told the paper.

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/08/ex-bama-cb-heading-to-usm-denies-violating-team-rules/

We don't know all the details behind Lawrence's dismissal from the team, all we do know is that he is openly denying that he broke team rules and he is on record saying that he doesn't want to talk about it. 

This post is not intended to examine the details of Lawrence's situation, but to shed light to the fact that it is obvious that players, for whatever reason, do not want to talk publicly about being cut or removed from the team.  Perhaps, for them, in the long it's better to just keep your mouth shut and move on to another school.  If that's the case then there is something wrong with the system.

Update 6/19/2010: It appears that Lawrence is no longer with Southern Miss and headed to JUCO.  No one, even his coach at Southern Miss, knows where Lawrence is or what he is doing, as he has fallen completely off the radar.

"I haven't seen him or talked to him so I don't know (where he is) to be honest with you," Fedora told the Clarion-Ledger. "There's nothing we did on our side."

http://blog.al.com/press-register-sports/2010/06/former_tide_cb_alonzo_lawrence.html

This post was regarding the reasons why players might not talk about being cut, it was not an expose' on Lawrence, and we never claimed that he was wrongfully thrown off the team - we simply stated that he disagreed with being removed and that he didn't want to comment on it.  From our original post above:

We don't know all the details behind Lawrence's dismissal from the team, all we do know is that he is openly denying that he broke team rules and he is on record saying that he doesn't want to talk about it. 

Obviously, there is something going on with Lawrence.  Although he was not kicked off the team at Southern Miss, (in fact no one knows why he is not reporting and for all we know he could have family problems, drug problems, home sick, etc., etc., or maybe he never recovered from being kicked off the team at Alabama) this is the second team he has left which definitely raises an eyebrow towards the direction of Lawrence.  But again, no one knows what is going on. 

We implied that players don't talk about being cut because most of the time it is in their best interest to work with the coach to find a new home or somehow land on their feet elsewhere - we stand by that - but there definitely times when players are cut from the team who need to be cut from the team and those players don't talk about it for obvious reasons.

The sad reality is that no one really wins here and Lawrence is the only loser - hopefully the kid gets his act together and makes the most of his life.

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Comments (25) Trackbacks (0)
  1. SoccerMike
    May 25th, 2010 - 10:31

    I posted early to another poster grats on finding a player. I am one of those that have said please find one and here is one that apparantly was not happy about having to transfer. Again as you stated no one knows and if it was about poor performance I would also not want to blame him for not talking. How many people on this site would talk about any job they were let go because they could not perform the duties asked of them. I do not know if that is a flaw in the system, but it could be.

    One thing I am curious though is about your definition of being cut. In the write-up you imply here that this transfer is the same as being cut, atleast that has been your arguement all along. That the underlying motive of the transfer was to actually remove the player from the team since they were underperforming or no longer fit the coach’s plan for the future. I am not disagreeing here with you but am curious how you define what. Another poster responded yesterday to your homework thread. He found other schools that are in the same boat as UA that have to many scholarships commited and have to juggle the numbers, or as you would put it, cut players to get under the 85 limit. He even listed that Texas already had 2 players transfer this spring and still needed to cut 1 more. Your response was great thanks for the info and has any of the schools he listed you asked if they had cut any players yet, because you said that UA has already cut 4. Now he already told you that Texas had 2 transfer and 1 of the 4 that UA has removed from the roster is also a transfer. What is the difference. Either you do not consider the 2 at Texas that transferred as being cut and if so than only 3 at UA have. But if all 4 at UA have been cut why is it okay for Texas to have transfers. I understand you have praised M Brown on this site about how he does not need to do it at Texas. It just looks to me as a double standard here. Maybe you have misspoke and I will give you the benefit of the doubt here.

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  2. Bad
    May 25th, 2010 - 19:31

    Geeze SoccerMike…admit when your wrong. You asked for an example and this one is pretty obvious.
    Sure, every coach would love to sign 100 players every year and cut the 75 “under performing.” At the very least to keep these kids out of rival schools. But that’s not fair to the kids and the reason you keep coming back is because you know thats true. Your not out there defending limos to the school…because no one cares. You know this argument has substance and your scared Saban will get a black eye. If it doesn’t matter go back to your RammerJammer websites and forget about a website that is so clearly wrong everyone on it must not have a clue.
    Saban is not a great coach because he’s cutting the “under performers”. He’s a piece of crap because he promised these kids 4 years and an education. He promised their parents he’d look out for them. Then when he found someone better he threw them away. And don’t kid yourself about this underperforming argument. He’d kick McElroy to the curb if 3 Tebows joined the team.

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    • SoccerMike
      May 26th, 2010 - 08:36

      This is where you fail. As I posted but like the owner of the site you do not like Saban, but again only two players out of the how many ever that have left were promised anything by Saban have left the program. Maybe they were promised by UA but not Saban. But your arguement it was him that made the promises. Again lump it all on him because he was the coach at the time, but he did not bring all the players in question. But again you will not because you are limited in what you want to see and the truth, many people are like that. Now you will come back with some pathetic arguement he should have honored what the previous staff offered out, but why. I like you but I did not recruit you and do not feel you are a player that will ever contribute in my system. You can stay but you will just sit the bench or you can go to another school if you want to play. Any player that I know of would probably transfer because they want to play and they still get a 4 year education. Why is that so wrong. Not to mention all the players that did get what they were promised an opportunity to see the field and an education. T Grant this year and other last year. But like you and this site because it was Saban it is wrong. Every player in question has or will receive their education, exactly what they were promised and every player was given the chance to see the field like they were promised before they transferred. That even includes the players Saban did not recruit. But you do not see that and state that Saban promised these players and their parents and that they are now on the street with no education. Slant it how you want becuase when you speak with a narrow mind all you do is spout ignorance.

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      • Bad
        May 26th, 2010 - 10:32

        You don’t get to screw a kid over just because you feel like it. You shouldn’t screw anyone over. But maybe your momma didn’t raise you right.
        Actually you do get to screw a kid over. Now. That’s what is wrong with the system. This action is wrong. This argument wouldn’t scare you otherwise.
        Why argue that Saban is such a good guy? Why argue that he is treating all his players great? Just say,”he’s allowed to do it, so screw you guys. Bwaa Haaa Haaa!” Then take you happy arse back to the Saban statue and rub him some more.

        /I know you have to comment again.
        //You just can’t help yourself. :)
        ///Do it.
        ////And don’t forget to call you mom about ethics.

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        • SoccerMike
          May 26th, 2010 - 11:25

          I guess your mom taught you to call other people names. I guess that is not unethical just shows imaturity on your part. No since you are so above me like you say you are you will be the one that will not respond. If you do it just shows need to call more names and get attention. Go ahead do it, but again you wont because you are the better person.

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          • Bad
            May 27th, 2010 - 09:01

            I knew it! Thanks! Couldn’t help yourself, could ya?
            I’m not the one who hates this site. Leave.
            Actually, don’t leave. I like the spotlight on ignorance. It makes me laugh.
            That was supposed to be “take your happy arse…” Typo…but I think you could have figured it out. Maybe not.
            Even if it was…who cares?
            Geeze. What is wrong with you? Go cry in your life-sized Saban pillow.

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        • soccermike
          May 27th, 2010 - 09:55

          Yeah I have an online stalker. I feel so special. I have always wanted one.

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    • Donald
      May 27th, 2010 - 08:58

      Hey moron! Athletic scholarships are NOT GUARANTEED for four years they… are awarded one year at a time. Check your NCAA rules before you make stuff up to back up your Saban hating party. Did your debate professor forget to teach you to get facts straight first? And you certainly can’t hold the kid accountable. What happened if the kid promised he would practice as hard as he could and study the playbook as much as he could and didn’t? Saban is obligated to keep him around if he is just dead weight and doesn’t want to help the program. Do you know that this kid Alonzo is not the one that didn’t “break a promise”? You have no clue what happened and all that you wrote is complete speculation. That in no way comes through your little brain that it might be Alonzo’s fault (not saying it is) you can’t fathom that situation occured. Your entire argument is based on assumptions and a lie (your 4 year promise of scholarship).

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  3. SoccerMike
    May 25th, 2010 - 19:51

    Actually I have never had an issue with the supposed purpose of this site. My arguement was that the owner came about it in a way to slam Saban and UA, or other SEC teams when the opportunity presented itself. I agree that oversigning along with a few other practices are dirty little secrets that the NCAAA does a horrible job with policing and looking out for the best interest of the player. But I have argued that this site seems to focus on Saban and UA way to much. I am not the only one that feels that way because many more posters would agree with that than not, just count all the replies. I also agree I have been part of the issue regarding SEC vs Big-10 but I do enjoy a good arguement and again I find that the topic of this site has concerns that need to be addressed. But I disagree when the site is here for purposes other than a rival fan to use it to discredit another program as I feel and many others do. He has remained vigilant in his debate that he does not have issues with Saban, UA, or the SEC, but I have completely disagreed and feel this is solely the work of a OSU fan that dispises the above mentioned.

    Now after finding out who the owner is, which surprises me that he is from AL, I no longer see the validity of this site for what it should represent. He is an OSU fan as I assumed earlier and he hates Saban, UA, and the SEC. Here are a few quotes from him on Ozone a OSU board that he posts on daily and I was able to confirm through many of his posts that this site does belong to him.

    “Zero respect, 100% hatred. Damn we need a win against an SEC team soon, just to shut these idiots up.”

    “The academics in the SEC are crap and outside of football the SEC has NOTHING to offer, other than maybe an opportunity for someone to teach at the college level who doesn’t want to deal with snow in the winter…outside of that they don’t have jack sh!t to offer potential candidates for expansion. ”

    And there are many more just go to the Ozone and look for posts by 7NCs7Heisman. See a site created for the sole purpose of making others aware of something wrong is one thing but a site created based on one persons vendetta is another. Maybe you truly have a concern for oversigning and players but you also use this site as a platform to demonstrate your hatred for Saban, UA, and the SEC. Enjoy it but please understand this site is not unbiased by any means.

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    • BuckeyeXB
      May 26th, 2010 - 13:32

      I am curious why a Tide fan would visit the Ozone in the first place. Speaking for myself only, I have no interest in visiting websites created for fans of programs other than my own.

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      • soccermike
        May 27th, 2010 - 09:58

        Just someone on a another board was linking the site and the owner of this site. I actually freguent most SEC and other team boards regarding a team UA is playing or head to head battles for recruits. It is nice to get a different prespective at times. Also some other boards have alot more info on recruits.

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        • BuckeyeXB
          May 27th, 2010 - 11:20

          The different perspective you get is of the fans of that particular team. As a Buckeye fan I know that the posts are over the top on the sites dedicated to the Buckeyes. Of course they are, that is why we are called fans and it is our right to be as delusional as possible . This applies to all fans of all teams. What I don’t get is when fans of another program stop by and try to argue with us over OUR perception of OUR team. Are you expecting to have someone say “yes, you are right, we suck and I will no longer support this team.” Of course not. It has been my experience that the ones who do come on our boards are SEC fans. This smacks of an amazing amount of insecurity and I see it everywhere not just on Bucknuts or the Ozone. Some of the sites require signing up and paying. Why in the world would a ‘Bama or a UF fan PAY to go on a site dedicated to the Buckeyes? I am an alum of tOSU and have been a fan my whole life which translates into over 40 years. NEVER in all those years have a seen a fan base that: a. roots for a conference as opposed to their own team. You will never find an Indiana fan taking credit for tOSU’s success. b. Is like the beautiful woman who is so insecure that she needs to be reminded how beautiful she is, but should you say someone else is beautiful as well, jumps down your throat. Pre-2006, I don’t recall CFB being about Conference vs. Conference. It was tOSU vs. USC, not the Big Ten vs. the Pac-10. All of the sudden the 0-9 vs. the SEC mantra started. For me the losses were against the individual teams, not the entire conference. I am quite sure if they had been playing Vandy,Ole Miss or Miss. St. instead of the SEC champs in the NCG, the outcome would be much different. And BTW, most of us don’t use the record vs. the SEC as the stick by which we measure success or failure. Having a 100+ year rivalry does that. This whole “toughest conference from top to bottom” is nonsense. At the top yes, but let me know when Vandy is a NC contender in order for the bottom part to be true.

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          • SoccerMike
            May 27th, 2010 - 14:19

            Actually I usually only stay on the recruiting boards and I would never pay to be on another site. When recruiting articles are posted on UA boards they have alot of slant to them so if I go elsewhere I see something different. I use it mainly to gather more info. I also stay away from debating on a rival board. Like you said fans become delusional. But on the boards I freguent including UA they will not tolerate that or kick the fan off. Not many posters on any of the rival sites I go to have an issue with me but again I will respect a fan site. If I need to talk trash I can do it on a UA board. I do though root for the conference, so even if it is UF playing in the NC games I pull for them, unlike many other UA fans that would not. Even on Tidefans we would support OSU fans along as they are civil. Heck there will be a thread created in the fall prior to the PSU game for fans to come on and talk. Again as long as it remains civil no issues.

            For what it is worth my prediction for next year is UA vs OSU in BCSCG. Of course UA wins but what can I say. LOL

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  4. Bad
    May 25th, 2010 - 20:40

    Wow nice post. You worked in an Ad Hominem attack, red herring, and an appleal to sympathy (us vs them) in one stroke. Literally chapters 5, 6 and 7 in a book I have “Art of Deception”. Golf clap. Bravo.
    It usually means you’ve conceded the argument though. Sorry about that. Better luck next time. My debate professor would have let you keep going but my Logic Prof would have made you sit at this point.
    You concede it’s a dirty little secret. And it’s one that doesn’t have to happen. If every team could only give out x number of offers…no one team will be hurt or have an advantage. Sure a team like Tenn will have a bad year every once in a while but I bet Alabama fans think Saban can play with 77 players and still win. At least everyone plays by the same rules and kids don’t get screwed. That’s all this site is saying.

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    • SoccerMike
      May 26th, 2010 - 08:53

      Same rules really. This site praised Mack Brown for not oversigning, but now it has been pointed out that he oversigned by 3 players and so 2 have already transferred. Where is the owner of the site or you up in arms that these players at Texas were cut. Again you are not because it is a personal thing that you have against Saban. Now you will come back and say that 3 isn’t 9. Again just like this site you use the evidence only when it supports your arguement.

      The difference for me is not Saban, but the truth without a slant. Saban when successful at LSU had UA fans that did not like him. Just like when he came to UA, LSU fans that once loved him hated him. When you are the best you will always have people that dislike you. That is the one thing this does is show the jealousy that other rival fans have for him. It is actually only supporting how good he is when a site has to be created by a fan from another school who has demonstrated over and over his dislike for Saban on his own team website boards. So he goes here to discredit him. The site is great for fans like yourself who can hide behind the fabrication or smoke screen it is suppose to be set up for, and continue to have another outlet for your frustrations and dislike for Saban.

      See your response is a perfect example of this. All the arguing between posters on here have been people who are UA fans that dislike the slant and there are more of those than other posters or people such as yourself that has to argue with them that your opinion is that Saban, in your words, is a piece of crap. Healthy discussions have never taking place on this site because that is not what it was created for. I read the Ozone and found even OSU fans wanted him to go create his own site because they were tired of hearing his rant there. I tried in the beginning to be opened minded but I was called naive and tlod I was wrong because the owner of the site is so narrow minded that he will not see anything past his belief of hatred towards Saban and UA. Maybe he should leave the state of AL if he dislikes the south so much and he has stated with all is insults he posted on the other site. I am glad someone like you approves of his comments towards the south and the SEC It just shows your bias and why your comments hold no validity other than to fabricate more hatred on this site towards Saban.

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      • Bad
        May 26th, 2010 - 10:17

        It doesn’t matter if someone dislikes Saban or not. If he is doing what you admit is wrong…then it is wrong. There is no slant in that. Who cares if someone lives in Alabama or not. Your slant is as obvious as his…so pot–meet kettle. Replace Alabama with Ole Miss or Texas. Or whoever you want in your own mind. Just so happens Saban was pushing the top of the numbers list. Doesn’t change the facts. If you don’t like it…why do you keep coming back? All you can do now is resort to Ad Hominem attacks and it’s pretty juvenile. He’s not attacking the SEC as a whole. Vandy and Georgia don’t oversign. You know nothing about me…but my bias was raised against this who mess when Ole Miss signed 37 players. And if you saw that and didn’t think that was wrong…then you are either a liar, a homer or a little slow on the uptake. Sure people might be bias. I’m sure there is bias people against USC. It doesn’t make it right to give out million dollar homes to players families. But lets all look the other way because someone somewhere may like another team more than USC. Or lets ignore the kids getting pushed to Directional State U because the coach found someone better…just because you don’t like the messenger.
        We all know you know its wrong…that’s why you keep coming back to the site. Again…golf clap.

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  5. SoccerMike
    May 26th, 2010 - 11:07

    I come back because you get me so excited. Again like the owner you belive it is ok to create news and create scenarios that imply that if someone does something they are wrong but it is ok that someone else does it. I am now really confused. See if the issue was just about oversigning many posters would not post, but it is not. It is a soap box to push negative propagnda. You argue the merits of the site are valid but yet support the site that creates a slant when doing so only when info provided works for their personal vendetta. It is one thing here to provide news but it is another to create news to support your arguement. I do not see an article that says Texas march to 85, but again I doubt that would happen because the owner has already stated M Brown would never do that and it doesn’t help provide ammo on Saban.

    I have not anytime posted that oversigning is ok. I have though argued that situations at each school be looked at in light of what may have happened, like coaching changes. It is one thing to cut a player and send them packing but it is different if the player gets their degree and leaves. But yet you seem to think it is all the same. You will now come back an argue oversigning is oversigning, but why can not people address something when asked. Instead you just argue that you are right and nothing else counts, and like the owner call people names.

    This site is a perfect example of Ad Hominem. But I guess you are one of those type of people that when deciding to vote for someone in office you do it off the commercials they push. I guess you do not see the slant there and agree what the candidate says is the gospel like here.

    If you like to continue to call me out go for it please feel free. It will not add anymore to the arguement at this point and I actually do not enjoy it because I find meaningless unless you can bring something new to the table. I know you will come back and respond with some textbook remark that makes you feel superior above others.

    If you would like to continue the dialog inregards to oversigning and get away from the us vs. us and your opinion that Saban is a piece of crap, BTW your words. Than I will gladly exchange thoughts on what this site is suppose to be about without including any bias, even on my side. See it goes both ways. If all parties checked that at the door including the owner this site, it would provide a creative environment that would allow for good debate over the issue at hand.

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    • Bad
      May 27th, 2010 - 15:52

      Not superior to others. Just you. Might want to look up Ad Hominem. Did you graduate from UA?

      If a reporter or anyone reports Alabama has 91 kids under scholarship (or any more than 85)…doesn’t matter who he roots for. If its a fact, its a fact. Unless that fact is wrong…which I haven’t read otherwise…and you haven’t argued UA has only signed 85.

      If Saban promised one parent he would look out for their kid…then yes he’s a piece of crap. I don’t know why me saying that gets your panties in a wad. There are no shades of grey here. A liar is a liar. That’s not slant. Because I don’t care who you are or what university pays your salary. You’re a liar. And if you believe he told each parent that he only wants their kid for one year and would re-evaluate…you need to stop drinking the cool-aid.

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      • SoccerMike
        May 27th, 2010 - 18:23

        My little stalker. As I have stated before I did not attend any SEC school. Again my problem with posters such as yourself is your inability to separate the facts. How of the many recruits that left the program since Saban arrived 3 years ago only 2 he recruited. That means he only made a promise to 2 families. Now neither of us know what that was and can only speculate and what it might be. Now is there concern raised for players that have left via transfering or whatever, maybe, but Saban did not recruit those other players nor did he make any of them promises as you like to presume. Now you can get upset for him not honoring prior commitments but that should be the school held accountable for not retaining those players with whatever promises Shula made to them.

        You like to make the arguement that Saban promised all the these families he did not. No grey area there, except maybe he did not honor prior promises. Also you are still assuming that all these players have broken promises. No one knows for sure as even the owner of this site has stated what exactly transpired when Saban and the players talked. You do assume that it had to be malicious in nature or you would not call him names, but yet you have no proof of it only your opnion. Sorry but opinions are not fact no matter how you argue it. Again it is all about ifs.

        In regards to a reporter making a statement that UA oversigned no it is not an issue when the article like I have seen before is focusing on UA, but when the site states it focuses on the problem of oversigning and using every opportunity to slam UA and Saban than alot of posters as you have seen have an issue for the false pretense. I have not vacillated one time on my stance regarding oversigning as you have stated I have not argued a position yet on it.

        Now the one thing I will agree on one thing is a comment you made on another post regarding offers and if a kid doesn’t commit soon enough they lose the offer. I do have issues with these so called conditional offers out there and players being pushed for early verbal commitments to take them off the market. Alot more presure seems to but on these kids as of late and commiting very quick.

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  6. Michael
    May 26th, 2010 - 12:51

    So now Saban is in the business of cutting 5 star players just to bring in what 3 or 4 star players? It seems you are searching for anything to prove your hollow point.

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  7. Andrew
    May 27th, 2010 - 15:49

    I think the premise of this article is flawed and is entirely too speculative. It places entirely too much blame at the feet of the coach and not enough on the player. Alonzo Lawrence was a 4* DB coming out of high school with offers from every big SEC program and several from top ACC programs including FSU and Miami. It is no secret that Alabama lacks depth at defensive back this year so it begs the question, why would coach Saban cut loose a top prospect that had spent a year learning the system directly under his tutelage (as he is the DB coach) for no reason or for a made up reason? Surely you can see there are some flaws in the reasoning here. Something had to have happened. This kid has three years of eligibility remaining. I have a hard time believing he is removed from the team at his age to make room for a newer player. If he were perhaps a junior, maybe I could see something to your argument but I struggle with this Alonzo’s situation given his high talent, young age and remaining years of eligiblity. It does not add up to being all Coach Saban’s fault. I’m sorry.

    Thanks
    Andrew/

    ( REPLY )
    • deepsthboy
      May 28th, 2010 - 21:26

      Andrew, this is not to mention the fact that we have a situation where the kid was forced to leave for what might be some sort of ugly reason (we will surely never know just what happened), and the kid says “I didn’t do anything wrong!”

      Well MAYBE he didn’t. Maybe Nick Saban, Mal Moore, and the entire University of Alabama was willing to risk one gargantuan lawsuit and just threw this kid unceremoniously out on his ass. OR maybe, just POSSIBLY mind you, the kid isn’t telling the truth. Now I know that seems crazy, because generally speaking the kid you can believe the most is the kid that left under circumstances like the ones Lawrence left under. But I just want to throw it out there that it’s CONCEIVABLE that he isn’t being altogether honest with us.

      ( REPLY )
      • Joshua
        May 28th, 2010 - 21:40

        Lawsuit, you’re kidding right? All kids get is an opportunity to schedule a hearing with the financial aid department to try and get their scholarship reinstated, there are no laws being broken unless there is a breach in the 1 year agreement, and even then I bet there is something in there that enables a University to cancel the 1-year agreement.

        Furthermore, how could there ever be a lawsuit if all you have claimed to this point is that there is nothing wrong with the practice of oversigning or throwing kids to the side? Now you’re saying that if it did happen the kid could have a lawsuit…really?

        ( REPLY )

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