Oversigning.com
26May/103

Stewart Mandel Gets It

Quick programming note - we are in the process of switching hosting services and going to unlimited bandwidth - but if the site goes down in the next 24 hours rest assured that we will be back shortly.  The site has started gaining traction and people all over the country world are now starting to investigate oversigning. 

We want everyone to know that this is a very large topic to investigate - wrapping your head around one roster can be maddening at times, much less trying to investigate 64 rosters.  Our goal for this site is to stimulate fans around the country to investigate their programs or their rival's programs, if they want, to help determine who is signing more players than they have room for and who is doing the best job of staying within their recruiting budgets and retaining student-athlete football players. 

Many people will say that LOI (Letters of Intent) don't count - only scholarships count.  We don't believe that, we believe that LOI are like golf swings, every single one of them counts.  If you accept a signed letter of intent, even if it is from the same player two or three years in a row, it counts, and we count them the same way for all schools.  If you don't think it means anything, just ask the kids who sign those letters.  If it didn't mean anything we wouldn't have all day TV coverage of National Signing Day.  

Our initial charts have provided an excellent starting point in that it is one of the only places where you can see the sum total numbers for all BCS schools from 2002-2010 in one place, all nice and neat.  You can get this same information by toggling through Rivals.com or Scout.com and going from team to team, year by year, but that is a lot of work.  In fact, we created these tables because we got sick of having to toggle back and forth all the time while trying to start our investigation. 

Regardless, we just wanted everyone to know that the goal of the site is to get everyone to help investigate the problem and bring it to light. 

Now on to Stewart Mandel.  It appears that he has discovered oversigning.com and agrees with our position that A. oversigning does exist and is not some made up fairy tale, and B. that while it is not an NCAA violation, it is a loophole in the NCAA rule book that needs to be addressed.

What really blows our mind is that the original question came from Sujith in Bangalore, India.  Unbelievable.  

Another simple solution that we have suggested here is that the NCAA mandate that each school has to report its recruiting budget prior to signing day and that each school only be allowed to accept that many LOI.  By reporting its recruiting budget we mean that each school has to determine, before signing day, the exact number of slots they will have open (which is simply 85 minus the number of returning scholarship players from the previous year - a formula that is used by the Big 10 and several schools around the country that refuse to oversign players - Vanderbilt, Georgia, GT, Notre Dame, etc) and only accept signed letters of intent from that many players.  This will encourage coaches to only take players they know will qualify and will eliminate the loophole of signing 10 extra players and figuring out over the spring and summer who stays and who goes, thus eliminating the extra spring evaluation period that some coaches use.

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  1. It’s good to get attention, but Mandel makes the same mistake that many of your detractors make. He focuses much of his attention on the single year 25 portion of the 25/85 signing limit. It’s good that the SEC has somewhat addressed this issue with their new limit of 28, but my impression is that the greater problem is abuse of the 85 player roster limit. I have no problem when a school that has 55 returning scholarship athletes signs 30 new kids (provided they can back date 5 of them to comply with the regulations) to get up to the 85 limit. My bigger concern is when a team only signs 25 per year, but does not have room for these new signees because they returned 65 or 70 scholarship athletes. I see one of the responders to your homework post identified a handful of schools other than Alabama that appear to be oversigned this season (admittedly I’ve not seen one identified that had oversigned to the extent of Alabama’s excess), but maybe the Alabama backers can deal with the issues rather than feeling as if they are the sole target of this campaign. Thanks for your efforts.

  2. I actually think it would be hard for any school that competes for the NC every year to provide a recruiting budget that would be exact. Even a school like USC, Texas, or OSU. No school in Jan can account for talent on the team that in March after researching the opportunity decides to go the NFL. Now the arguement here will be take a chance if they do not already know and if they decide you either play short of the 85 next fall or offer it to a walkon the scholly. As stated I believe on this site some teams already fall into that catagory. I think most schools could project the number they are hoping for but not as accurate as some may want. I do think attrition does take place and not because there is room. It is a gamble and I am sure most coaches have an idea of who will go pro, but all the NCAA would do is require an estimate.

    Regarding the recruiting budget most fans through sports sites and recruiting sites already have an idea for the upcoming year what a school is looking to add or should I say have room for. So I think the numbers are there. I mean most UA fans think our class will only sign 18 to 20 this year and I have heard maybe upto 22 based on some juniors next fall and if the NFL might become an option. Than yeasterday some recruiting expert was saying up to 25 so who knows.

  3. The goal isn’t to be exact. The goal is that on signing day you make commitments not only to the new recruits but also to the existing players. The combination of these two groups will equal no more than 85.

    Players have to declare for the NFL draft in mid-January so every school knows exactly how that will affect the team.

    The tricky part is making a commitment to a player that is having trouble academically. For example, I’m guessing that in January Ohio State could have forced the academically ineligible Duron Carter out to make room for one more recruit. However, the upside on Carter is great so they decided to take the chance. If he was buried on the depth charts I bet he would have announced a transfer in January (well that and if his dad wasn’t Cris Carter).

    No team is 100% clean in this matter as players are forced out of every program. But by allowing oversigning, college football is making the situation a lot more prevalent than it would be otherwise.


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