There is nothing wrong with Greyshirting, Les Miles
It appears that Les Miles has not taken the criticism he has received, which he was rightfully given, for the Elliott Porter debacle well and he has taken to defending the practice of Greyshirting players. Here are a few of his comments...
He noted that Porter’s scholarship offer was still good, just postponed a semester. He said if somebody made the same offer to one of his sons, they would “certainly be disappointed that day, but recognize that, long-term, it’s not a bad thing.”
Miles said grayshirting can benefit players who could use time to allow their bodies to mature.
“He might take his time to come in shape and to benefit his body and compete,” he said.
The practice is common in the Southeastern Conference, but not allowed in other conferences, like the Big 10. CBS Sports’ Gregg Doyel was particularly harsh with his critique in a column Sunday, calling Miles “a bad guy.” He had similar descriptions for others who oversign, calling Ole Miss coach Houston Nutt “despicable” and Alabama’s Nick Saban “two evolutionary stages below a lizard.”
Miles said he had not read the Doyel column but “I did get bits and pieces of that.”
“I can tell you no one is more critical of how I operate than me,” Miles said. “I can tell you the guys I visited with and I told, for the team, it might well be the best thing for you physically and might well be best for you and your health and by the count of numbers and scholarships, you might benefit the most by postponing your entrance into school."
Allows us to put on our Miles decoder and see if we can decipher what he said -- not sure we'll be able to make anything out of that last quote, though.
First let us clear up some errors in Laney's original article.
1. The Big 10 has not banned greyshirting players; it is something that is watched very closely but it has not been banned. Oversigning is not allowed, but greyshirting is allowed in the Big 10.
2. You'll have to read the entire article for this one, but in the original article the general tone is that the issue with Les Miles was the 25 scholarships per year rule and that by signing 27 he was two over the limit, hence the greyshirt offer. While Laney is right, 25 per year is the limit and LSU was over with 27 eligible, the real issue here is the 85 limit and what took place prior to August deadline. If you examine LSU's recruiting budget at signing day you can see that by signing 27 they were projected to be 9 over the 85 limit. Therefore, in addition to the greyshirt offers that were declined there were a handful of other players that were removed in order to make room for 25 of the 27. We happen to have a list handy.
The March to 85 - LSU
| Player | Position | Reason for Leaving |
|---|---|---|
| Akiem Hicks | Defensive Tackle | Removed from the team - was involved in NCAA investigation |
| Kyle Prater | Linebacker | Transfer |
| Jhyryn Taylor | Wide Receiver | Transfer |
| Thomas Parsons | Fullback | Medical Hardship Scholarship |
| John Williams | Wide Receiver | Medical Hardship Scholarship |
| Clay Spencer | Offensive Lineman | Medical Hardship Scholarship |
| Chris Garrett | QB | Cut - Scholarship Not Renewed |
| Houston Bates | Defensive End | Released from LOI in April; refused Greyshirt |
| Elliott Porter | Offensive Lineman | Asked to Greyshirt in AUGUST; refused Greyshirt; released |
When you step back and look at the entire body of work in this recruiting class you can see just poorly Miles has managed the entire process. The only conclusion you can draw about the series of events is that Les Miles simply signs the 25 max every year and sorts the bodies out later, and until this point it really hasn't bitten him in the ass. We have a list handy for that as well. This is every recruiting class for Miles since 2002; some of the numbers came from his time at Oklahoma State. Roughly a 24 average with as many as 31 in a single class. And for just about every one of those years there are handful of BS stories about how Les got the roster down either to the 25 for the year or 85 overall.
National Championship Coaches 2002 - 2010
| Coaches | Conf. | 2002 | 2003 | 2004 | 2005 | 2006 | 2007 | 2008 | 2009 | 2010 | Total | Average |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Saban (03/09) | SEC | 26 | 28 | 26 | 0 | 0 | 25 | 32 | 27 | 29 | 193 | 27.50 |
| Miles (07) | SEC | 28 | 31 | 19 | 13 | 26 | 26 | 26 | 24 | 27 | 220 | 24.44 |
| Meyer (06/08) | SEC | 22 | 19 | 25 | 18 | 27 | 27 | 22 | 17 | 27 | 204 | 22.66 |
| Brown (05) | BIG12 | 28 | 18 | 20 | 15 | 25 | 24 | 20 | 20 | 22 | 192 | 21.33 |
| Carroll (04) | PAC10 | 22 | 28 | 19 | 19 | 27 | 18 | 19 | 18 | 20 | 190 | 21.11 |
| Tressel (02) | BIG10 | 24 | 16 | 24 | 18 | 20 | 15 | 20 | 25 | 18 | 180 | 20.00 |
Based on LSU's numbers at National Signing Day they should have signed 18 new recruits, not 27. Had all 18 made it academically, like all 27 did, they would have all had a spot, Chris Garrett would be at LSU not Northeastern State or wherever he landed, and Elliott Porter, since he was an early verbal commitment, would be living on LSU campus partaking in LSU spring ball. But then again, we all know the deal, you know, it's just business and all. Plus, if Miles only signs the 18 he has room for he might miss out on a new recruit and another SEC school might get him, plus he won't have any extra players to hedge against unexpected injuries, where's the fun in that?
The Les Miles decoder tells us the following:
1. He only cares about the athlete portion of student-athletes.
2. He only reads bits and pieces of Doyel's columns.
3. He is a man with enough money to pay for his son's education and having to greyshirt would not be an issue for him. Nothing like screwing a kid over and then telling the world that it wouldn't be a problem for him if it happen to his kids - no kidding Les, your son could go to any school in the country and you could stroke a check for the full 4 years and never even blink. A four year education is rounding error on your balance sheet. For the rest of the working stiffs and the underprivileged in this country who don't make $3MM a year being a coach, having to pay for 1 semester of college can be an issue.
4. He told his players something about scholarship numbers and greyshirts, but we don't think he had any idea what he told them, when he told them, or who he told. Reminds us so much of his explanation of the time out at the end of the LSU - Ole Miss game last year.
How can you seriously believe that he knows what is going on with regards to recruiting numbers after something like this: http://ballhype.com/video/les-miles-calling-for-spike-and-lying-against-ole-miss/
The problem wasn't that he offered a greyshirt to Porter, it was how it was offered and when it was offered, and for Miles to come out and take exception with the criticism further proves that he has no clue that he did anything wrong. Perhaps that empty suit Mike Slive should have a talk with him about managing scholarship offers and proper etiquette when dealing with potential student-athletes.
Now let us address the greyshirting and scholarship numbers for next year.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with greyshirting a player provided there is an understanding between the school and the player way in advance. Obviously, we want the NCAA to do something about oversigning and our hope is that by closing the oversigning loophole we create transparency in the entire signing process, especially the greyshirt process.
So here is a scenario that we would like to see happen:
A school has 18 openings that can be filled on National Signing Day because that is their established recruiting budget for the year based on who they have graduating and who they have leaving early for the NFL. Given the 18 LOI limit, the school is given the option to sign up to a certain number of greyshirt prospects (let's say 3 per year). These three extra players are signed to a different type of LOI that explicitly states that the school has to honor their scholarship offer the following year but the players are free to accept scholarship offers from other schools and are not bound to the school offering the greyshirt.
This keeps the school at or under the 85 scholarship limit, allows them to sign a few greyshirts for the next year to accommodate players that are willing and able to pay their own way until the next year and obviously really want to go to a certain school, and it eliminates the Elliott Porter scenario, which absolutely has to stop.
Now for the scholarship numbers next year.
Greyshirting creates a scenario where you are counting scholarships forward. Let's take Alabama for instance; it appears that they have 3 potential greyshirt candidates this year that will join the team next year and count to next year's numbers. Looking at Alabama's scholarship roster it also appears that they only have 9 scholarship seniors and 5th year guys who will be freeing up scholarship room for the next recruiting class (feel free to correct us on that Bama fans). When you subtract the 3 greyshirt players from the number of scholarship seniors for next year the number of openings looks something more like 6). According to Rivals Alabama already has 17 verbal commitments. Let's say there are a 5 Juniors who jump to the league, that's only 14 scholarship openings. Does anyone think that Saban is done recruiting for the year???
LSU is in the exact same situation, small senior class and already over committed (verbally at least) in terms of having verbal commitments from more recruits then they have room for next year.
And come next year we'll see all kinds of transfers and hear all kinds of stories attached to them, but at the end of the day it's all garbage because regardless of how many "mutual agreements to leave" we hear the bottom line is that in the business of college football, especially in the SEC, it's out with the old, injured, and less than, and in with the new. After all, fans care just about as much about winning the recruiting national championship as they do about the BCS national championship.





August 13th, 2010 - 07:54
Oh the horror… Players being forced to perform at a high level in order to keep their scholarship. A player that fails his conditioning test being asked to grey-shirt and report READY to compete. These poor, poor young men. If your goal is not to work your tail off, become the best football player you can be and have a shot at the NFL, maybe these ultra competitive programs in the SEC are not right for some of these players. Everyone can’t be a champion.
August 13th, 2010 - 08:21
Why does this dishonest bore keep writing “we” and “our” instead of “I” and “me”?
August 13th, 2010 - 09:01
http://oversigning.com/testing/index.php/2010/08/03/houston-bates-got-out-early-why-not-elliot-porter/
See, Houston Bates did not sign a letter of intent with LSU. We had 29 commitments. Houston Bates signed with Illinois. Dexter Blackmon signed elsewhere. So it is innacurate to say he was released from his letter of intent. I believe Stavion Lowe is the one you’re missing.
August 13th, 2010 - 09:21
Oh, and you’re still an ass clown. If you really cared about this, you wouldn’t bring up bad coaching decisions, but you don’t care about this.
Also, Tressel is a horrible coach. How could we trust this idiot: http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Deconstructing-The-grisly-demise-of-Tressel-Ba?urn=ncaaf-189322
Which one is gonna change sooner? Les Miles calling a timeout in time or Jim Tressel getting outcoached in big games. Hey, as long as we’re gonna bring up irrelevant aspects, I might as well remind you that your coach is awful.
August 13th, 2010 - 09:55
Which is why I bring up Woody Hayes’ incident in the Gator Bowl, incidents with some of Tressel’s players, and so on. Every time this devolves into a personal attack, it deserves to be met with similar attacks on Tressel. If it stops, then I will stop.
August 13th, 2010 - 16:38
LOL You will never stop as your obsession with Ohio State will never end.
August 13th, 2010 - 09:23
Also, it’s kind of easy for Carrol to undersign, you know, since he PAYS HIS PLAYERS!
August 15th, 2010 - 00:03
Who exactly did Pete Carroll pay? Please, this revisionist BS is just an excuse to justify all of the SEC loses to USC, despite the avantages of massive oversigning and being able to recruit every semi-literate moron out there.
August 13th, 2010 - 17:34
BC,
You dont have a clue.
“Greyshirting creates a scenario where you are counting scholarships forward. Let’s take Alabama for instance; it appears that they have 3 potential greyshirt candidates this year that will join the team next year and count to next year’s numbers. Looking at Alabama’s scholarship roster it also appears that they only have 9 scholarship seniors and 5th year guys who will be freeing up scholarship room for the next recruiting class (feel free to correct us on that Bama fans). When you subtract the 3 greyshirt players from the number of scholarship seniors for next year the number of openings looks something more like 6). According to Rivals Alabama already has 17 verbal commitments. Let’s say there are a 5 Juniors who jump to the league, that’s only 14 scholarship openings. Does anyone think that Saban is done recruiting for the year???”
First off, the greyshirt is understood way before national signing day and not in June or August. The coach is supposed to be honest with the player if he is offered a greyshirt and not a scholarship for that year. With that said….Alabama is going too carry over 3 greyshirts when they barely have room for that as it is. It is going to be interesting to see how many players make the mistake of signing with Alabama when they will not really have a scholarship available in this years recruiting class. Poor kids. Trent, coming to compete and accepting a scholarship that isnt there are two completely different things. Crooked coaches Saban and Miles!
August 15th, 2010 - 12:15
Even Joe Paterno greyshirts, but for the right reasons, not to shuffle bodies to keep within the 85 limit. Last year he greyshirted a signee who got citied for underage drinking before the start of training camp, but once the kid served his greyshirt time and cleaned up his act, he was immediately put back on scholarship. Unilke these SEC snakes, Paterno didn’t move another, more desirable kid into his place, he just went into the season a little shorthanded (or gave the aid to a walk-on). Point is, Penn State never signs more kids than they have available scholarships; there are years where the full allotment is not met, in which case they are given to deserving walk-ons. If a player does his part for Joe and busts his ass in both practice and in the classroom and keeps out of trouble, he’ll stay on scholarship regardless of his position on the depth chart. I don’t think you can say the same for places like Alabama and LSU.
It is crucial that high school prospects know which schools and coaches are complying with the spirit of NCAA regulations, and those who are just playing the angles while technically still within the letter of the law. I don’t think this informaton is readily available, and websites like this could prove invaluable in alerting kids of this practice, identifying the coaches who abuse it, and perhaps helping a kid or two avoid getting a raw deal.
August 15th, 2010 - 13:10
Great commentary as usual guys, keep this blog/website up and keep bring these stories to light. The issue of oversigning in college football needs to be addressed and it slowly seems to be doing so. I think that most fans of the schools/coaches who partake in the practice of oversigning can see the sense in limiting the problems while finding ways to maintain their desire for championship caliber football.
The single largest issue that I see, that many others choose not to, is that NCAA football (no matter the school) is ETHICALLY supposed to be for the students first. The scholarships are designed to REWARD the student-athletes, not field a team to win big-time games. If a school is not doing this properly, then solutions should be instituted to do so.