Oversigning hits Twitter, Wikipedia
Update: Just want to commend the guys who created the twitter account for oversigning - you guys are pounding the media, both locally and nationally on this topic. Good work! We can't wait for Cecil Hurt to ask Nick Saban about his recruiting numbers.
A new twitter account was created on January 1st http://twitter.com/Oversigning. This is not our account and is not affiliated with oversigning.com. However, the account appears to have been created by SEC fans/graduates that agree with the premise of this site, and it appears their purpose is to hound national sports journalists and media members to really start covering oversigning and discussing it openly.
The purpose of this site was to bring oversigning out of the dark, shine a bright light on it, and get to the bottom of whether or not it needs to be removed from college athletics. If it is true that the new Twitter account was created by SEC fans that want to take a stand against the actions of schools like LSU, Alabama, Ole Miss, Arkansas (well basically the entire SEC West), then this site has served its purpose. We have never thought all SEC fans were advocates of oversigning, just the ones that benefit the most from its abuse; glad to see other people start to take a stand.
In addition to the new twitter account, someone, not us, has created a Wikipedia page for oversigning. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oversigning
This too is great to see - we encourage everyone that visits this site to visit our new friends at twitter and check out the Wikipedia site as well.
Best wishes to all for a Happy and Healthy New Year!
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- @GerdOzone imagine what that number would be had he oversigned at the rate of Saban/Miles/Nutt/Petrino.
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January 3rd, 2011 - 19:16
The WSJ, ESPN Outside the Lines… This stuff is finally getting mainstream attention. Great work for being a leader on this, Josh.
Oversigning being eliminated from the SEC is just a matter of time. As always, the South will be the last one to be dragged – by outsiders – into doing the right thing on a social justice issue.
How amazingly sad that this is still the case in 2010.
January 4th, 2011 - 12:15
Social justice issue? Where was the Kent St massacre again?
January 4th, 2011 - 14:49
LOL. Seriously?
January 3rd, 2011 - 19:39
As I commented in another thread, over-signing and throwing many to the curb, is just a symptom of the problems in the Deep South, that actually affect the U.S.A.
If you can, then read…
http://www2.wagt.com/news/2010/dec/22/us-army-entrance-exam-too-difficult-nearly-1-4-app-ar-1253463/
So-called “students” from most SEC states fail to pass the U.S. Army entrance tests, among those who voluntarily tried to pass, in order to enter the U.S. Army.
“75% of 17-to-24 year olds can’t even take the (U.S. Army entrance) test because they are physically unfit (e.g., enormously obese), have a criminal record or didn’t graduate from high school.”
Of the remaining, who tried to enter the U.S. Army, “25 percent of Georgia applicants failed over the past five years.” 30% in S. Carolina.
Questions are basic, such as: “If 2 plus x equals 4, what is the value of x?”
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/12/21/apnewsbreak-percent-pass-military-exam/#ixzz1A1cycGAR
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101221/ap_on_re_us/us_military_exam has a map.
Compare the Deep South with any other region of the United States. Deep South states do not care a twit about education. SEC! SEC!
But, if you can rush the passer like a cheetah, or drive a QB’s head in the ground like Fairley, that’s worth a HS diploma, a B.Sc. from Alabama, maybe even a Ph.D.
January 3rd, 2011 - 20:24
FYI… it’s 2011. And your prejudice against the South is outstanding. Stereotype much?
January 3rd, 2011 - 20:51
“FYI… it’s 2011.”
Yeah, it’s 2011. And here we are, with Southern state schools getting a lot of negative publicity for engaging in a highly unethical practice that will most likely be banned by national governing bodies within the next few years, despite the endless spin and denial from white Southerners.
In 2011.
January 3rd, 2011 - 20:45
“Stereotype” ??? You imply that I have used a tag that is not warranted.
If you are able to follow a link, then I invite you to check the map, at http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101221/ap_on_re_us/us_military_exam
Then, do an “eyeball” comparison of the deep south against all the other region of the United States.
That will tell you, among other things, who is serving the U.S. Army in defending the United States.
It’s not the SEC SEC SEC SEC.
January 3rd, 2011 - 21:07
I understand the map; you feel the need to denigrate the south, which is completely separate from the non-issue of oversigning.
And you were just about to explain what the link is between the map and the SEC. You were also going to describe how this relates to oversigning.
I’ve seen the argument that the SEC is the worst offender, but the zealots should focus on the practice everywhere rather than pitting Big 10 against SEC because it sounds an awful lot like sour grapes.
January 3rd, 2011 - 21:11
I am very intrigued by your presence on this site – you seem to have magically appeared around the same time certain administrative actions were taken against someone who had the same position as you and had a similar writing style; that person is no longer with us, or so we thought.
January 3rd, 2011 - 21:19
I wondered what happened to DSB. Das Boot?
January 3rd, 2011 - 21:26
Yep. He had his time in the sun; the endless ranting off-topic resulted in a system-wide flush.
January 3rd, 2011 - 23:55
Josh,
What, you flushed DSB. How could you? He is someone you need to smack around on the site. Please tell me it is only temporary. He is the main reason I come to this site to smack around. Anyway, I agree, it seem like he was throwing anything and everything that was completely off oversigning. He knows he can’t win that battle so he tries to blame Tressel and OSU for everything else. I hope DSB can find his way back here cause we need him around.
January 4th, 2011 - 14:50
How soon before “CharlieP” gets the flush? LOL
January 3rd, 2011 - 21:27
I have never posted on this site with any other name. Josh, I’m pretty sure that you have access to my e-mail; feel free to contact me if you still question my authenticity.
January 3rd, 2011 - 21:35
I’ll take you at your word. Just interesting the timing of your arrival. Welcome nonetheless.
January 4th, 2011 - 01:32
While his timing may be coincidental, Charlie is no DSB. He was arogant and off topic much of the time. To compare Charlie’s post to DSB’s means you either didn’t read them or you just lump any dissenting voice in the same pile.
January 3rd, 2011 - 21:21
John,
Really??
January 3rd, 2011 - 21:11
When I was in HS (early 60s, now 65+)…
I remember seeing promotions about student athletes at Ohio State who won national awards, like Bill Willis during WWII years, and Jesse Owens (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936_Summer_Olympics if you can bother to get off your butt to click a link) leading up to and during World War II.
But then, Southern Gov. George Wallace was standing up, another whole generation later, in the 1960s, apparently to “safeguard” the South by denying any Black Person to enter into a Deep South, pearly white, so-called “university”.
Now today, the Deep South grabs everyone who can rush the passer like a cheetah, regardless of whether they know “if 2 + X =4 then what is X.” Give ‘em a Bachelor’s degree. Maybe Ph.D. and the Nobel Prize for football.
January 4th, 2011 - 12:19
ummm, Andy Katzenmoyer anyone? Lets not go overboard now, there are dumb jocks at every school. The SEC graduates almost the same amount of players % wise that the Big 10 does.
I notice that FSU had a Rhodes scholar, and Bama had one up for it. I didnt seem to notice a Big 10 football player up for that award? i admit i may have missed it.
January 4th, 2011 - 15:12
I’m sure it doesn’t matter, but Jesse Owens is from Alabama.
January 3rd, 2011 - 21:30
“I’ve seen the argument that the SEC is the worst offender, but the zealots should focus on the practice everywhere rather than pitting Big 10 against SEC because it sounds an awful lot like sour grapes.”
The Big 10 does not have much to do with this.
Look at the map. The SEC cannot provide young men to defend our country. They are content to churn poor blacks into higher-education football, then churn them, and finally call “SEC SEC SEC SEC” aud nauseam.
January 3rd, 2011 - 21:56
“The Big 10 does not have much to do with this.” The Big 10 has a disproportionately large constituency on this site. They obviously have something to do with this.
First of all, I was not trying to defend the SEC. I was pointing out that observers might view the anti-oversigning agenda as having dishonest motives after the SEC has had the best of the Big 10. I know that some people are probably a little bit sensitive about it, which is why I have been hesitant to say it directly.
Admission criteria are different between military and college, but college admission is uniformly tougher even for student athletes. You should also realize that the subset of individuals applying for positions in the defense of our nation is almost completely independent of the individuals applying for athletic scholarships (largest dependent subset is represented by student athletes playing for service academies i.e. Air Force, Army, etc.).
January 3rd, 2011 - 22:51
I asked you to check the map, comparing the Deep South vs. any other part of the united states. Evidently you cannot comprehend this.
Can you answer this question? “If 2 plus x equals 4, what is the value of x?”
Do you think this is a valid university entrance question?
30-40% of deep south HS grads fail this question at a rate of 30+%
But if they can rush the passer, then they get a HS diploma and University degree, even if they cannot qualify for the Army.
January 3rd, 2011 - 21:36
But they are not capable of passing the U.S. Army entrance tests.
January 3rd, 2011 - 21:57
Did you serve in the military? I did and the southeast was very well represented.
January 3rd, 2011 - 22:44
what era?
January 3rd, 2011 - 22:52
I’ll answer your question when you answer mine
January 4th, 2011 - 00:22
I am curious to his answer also since I served my country in the USMC and was honorably discharged for my loyal service to this country. I find it offensive that someone without knowledge would lump everyone into the same catagory. Not only did I serve my country I was wounded on several occassions and am now a DAV with no issue about my time in. I also as someone from the deep south as you would like to call it have obtained three bachelors degrees and two master degrees from institutions that I would gladly attend over any university in the midwest. I am also currently working on my doctorate. So before you stereotype people make sure you have clue 3 riversguy.
January 4th, 2011 - 08:39
Sure, from Ft. Benning forward. The southern guys I knew could not speak a valid sentence, could not write a note without spelling errors, and could not make change from a quarter without an adding machine.
What if I did not? Would that change the ASVAB results for MS, LA, GA, FL, SC? Would it make Southern states the highest in passing the ASVAB?
Look at the published facts.
January 4th, 2011 - 10:23
“What if I did not? Would that change the ASVAB results for MS, LA, GA, FL, SC?”
No, it would not change the results, but it would expose you as a hypocrit. When you make comments like “The SEC cannot provide young men to defend our country” and “they are not capable of passing the U.S. Army entrance tests”, the implication is that the southeast is inferior because it produces fewer service men and women. Well, I’m here to tell you that there is no shortage of southerners in the military. And for the record, in my personnal experience, the least intelligent people that I encountered in the military were from outside the southeast. That includes Pennsylvania and Ohio in particular.
January 4th, 2011 - 08:49
“I also as someone from the deep south as you would like to call it have obtained three bachelors degrees and two master degrees from institutions that I would gladly attend over any university in the midwest.”
You “also as someone?”
Why would “as someone” get 3 bachelor’s degrees, and 2 master’s degrees? (Note the difference in spelling, from my sentence and yours).
Do you have a profession, or five professions (such as petroleum engineer, AND accountant, AND lawyer, AND physician- surgeon, AND software developer). What the heck?
January 4th, 2011 - 09:07
I would expect this response from someone like you. Your arrogance that for whatever reason you feel elevates above others. When reading published facts make sure that they are not bloated to prove a point. What the article fails to illustrate is that more hs students take the test from the south than any other portion of the country and I include Texas as part of the south. Since the largest of the military bases, especially for the Army are located throughout the south it make sense that more students would take the exam and yes the entry as of the past decade would support that and yes support the higher rate of failure. Actually I remember when I was in hs every student took the exam so they could miss class and really could care less how they did and had no intention to ever enlist.
Now I am not saying that education in the south is outstanding because as far as I am concerned across the country the public education system has failed. But so in the south with skewed numbers to prove your point I will say that alot of the youth who the system has failed have looked to enter the military as an option because they feel it is their only opportunity for a life. I guess if they lived in the major cities of the northeast, midwest, or west they would just drop out of school and join a gang. Maybe by your arguement that gang life of illegal activity is far more suitable then trying to join the military. Good arguement.
Again it is sad that the system has failed to produce to better individuals regarding education, but I still find how your arguement adds any value to the concerns of oversigning. All I see is another example of someone that probably supports a school from another conference point out a demographic so that they can feel better about themselves for whatever reason. I assuming by your name you might be from Pittsburgh so you feel the state of PA is better then the south. Yeah for you but again it fails to add any value to this issue. A trend that seems to happen alot on this board. My state is better than yours and my team is better. I am glad that oversigning is just an excuse for posters such as yourself.
Also did you read the whole article because Hawaii had the largest failure rate of any state and by the way in case you did not know they are not located in the deep south.
January 4th, 2011 - 09:19
Yes I have a profession. I own a business and I teach for a university. I guess you could say I am semi-retired enjoying my time with my children. I apologize that it offends you that I value education and continue to improve my trade. All my degrees correspond with my work and so yes they are neccesary. So what the heck does it matter why I have so many or what I do. You sort of seem bitter in the statement. And I will still stand by the universities I attend over any in the midwest, with maybe the exception of Northwestern. Great school and I like Chicago. A city alot nicer than Columbus GA, where I did one of my schools while in the USMC.
But again this site is about the issue of oversigning, something your arguement has failed to bring to light. If you poor education is a direct coorelation to the problem then I cocur, but until every school in the country including the Big 10, Big East and every DI conference, not just the SEC raises the bar so that the standards are set so that every athlete recruited can acheive success in the classroom it is a moot point to address. And right now all your arguement seems to demonstrate is banter to point out a demographic you feel superior to.
January 4th, 2011 - 12:34
I am not interested in elevating myself above any man. You’ve served in the Marines, and I salute you. You’ve created a business and taught for a university. Again, I salute.
When I started this thread, I wrote “As I commented in another thread, over-signing and throwing many to the curb, is just a symptom of the problems in the Deep South, that actually affect the U.S.A.”
And I believe that those who cry “SEC SEC SEC” are among those who are responsible for supporting and maintaining the worst educational systems in the United States.
And the way that they get around it… is oversigning by a full class-full and churning kids out the door.
You wrote “What the article fails to illustrate is that more hs students take the test from the south than any other portion of the country and I include Texas as part of the south.” Do you have a link to support that point? I’d be interested. But the PERCENT of failures in the deep south is still a concern.
“When reading published facts make sure that they are not bloated to prove a point.” How is the PERCENT of failures something that is bloated? Anyone who wishes to improve him/her self through the armed forces is a potential. The fact that high percents of southern students can’t pass the simple test is a big concern.
I understand the point about Hawaii, but that’s an outlier that I do not know about. But among the contiguous United States, the fact that 30+ percent in the deep south cannot correctly answer that 2+2=4 is concerning. As a former marine, as an educator, as a businessman, is that NOT concerning to you??? Or are you just SEC SEC SEC !!!!
January 4th, 2011 - 15:41
speaking as someone who currently lives in the south, but isnt from it. I have seen just as many dumb people in Washington DC, NY, Denver and LA as i have in Atlanta.
January 4th, 2011 - 15:45
I am concerned that the SEC has lower standards as many schools in the US for athletes. Again I think our education system as a whole is a farce and if one is gifted in the arguement based on athletic prowless they are simply let through the gates.
The SEC I believe in average probably has some of the lowest scores for entry among any of the big conferences and it concerns me that the universities in all the big conferences seem to support this type of recruitment. I understand that this is a way out for some but I will never support giving an education away that is not earned. So I guess that is why the concern of something being promised to someone who did not probably deserve it in the first place does not bother me when it is taken away. Because for the most part the scholarship was purely based on their athletic ability ond so should the renewel.
I understand the ethnical concern with a promise in recruiting to be broken over and over, but I see a bigger ethnical issue with creating an environment for those who should not be there in the first place. I believe it is a greater injustice for those who have strived to be above average students and yet fail to be admitted because of lack of room and/or how competative it has become for a general student. That is an injustice bigger then oversigning. A student works hard and is above average in the classroom but yet does not get accepted when someone with below average scores does because they can run with a ball or catch.
And yes as a SEC and UA supporter for football it does disturb me that these players are brought in only to fail from the start as a bigger plan for the program to succeed. But it also bothers me that at the HS level these same athletes somehow still qualify to particpate in HS athletics. Because even the minimum standards for college entry in some cases is less then HS.
I also agree that I think oversigning is a symptom. I like that word becuase it is of the bigger issue and yes I agree that issue is lack of quality education and recruiting players that should not be in college. Solve that problem and the symptom will be gone or eliminate those low standards and it will no longer be there regarding sign and, JUCO, or gray shirting to make room for players.
Coaches should have to recruit students not just athletes.
January 5th, 2011 - 07:24
you would be wrong. Players that cannot get into the SEC, are able to get into Big East schools. Look up Michael Ford as an example. Committed to Alabama, had to go to prep school, committed again but still couldnt make entrance. Was able to get into USF. Peanut Whitehead, unable to get into Alabama or Auburn, was able to get into Louisville.
January 4th, 2011 - 15:50
Even though I enjoy watching SEC football and UA is my favorite team neither of my alma maters are from the SEC. One is a PAC-10 school the other a ACC school. Also in my advancement through my profession I have become very complacent in my writing. Or should I say lazy when I rely on assistants to proof read my work. On here I do not have that luxery and hence why I have many incorrect spelled words and sometimes poor sentence structure. Think faster than I type. Like prowess vs prowless.
Joshua really needs to get an edit option for our post.
January 5th, 2011 - 01:10
Congratulations, Buckeyes.
Good to see a team win without having to stoop to the embarrassing levels the University of Arkansas descends to in attempt to win.
January 5th, 2011 - 12:15
Now that your proud institution has stooped to the level of SEC rule-bending and allowed “Columbus Ink” to play in the bowl game, are you ready to close this website?
January 5th, 2011 - 22:26
Why? What rule did they bend? The rule that allowed them to play? They were allowed to play so they played. What’s the problem? I
January 5th, 2011 - 20:21
I’m sorry, 3RiversGuy, but your argument is just totally incorrect. Not only is the southern region of the US perfectly capable of producing recruits for the US military, it does so at a disproportionally high rate. The majority of the US military recruits are educated (high school diploma some with college degrees, or some college classes, typically) southerners.
http://www.heritage.org/static/reportimages/E8F05D884C7E78E45A200DC953ED3854.gif
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/10/todays-army-smarter-richer-southern/
Also, despite the fact that this will almost certainly be labeled as racist, the locations with higher percentages of failures on the test match exactly with locations with higher populations of blacks and mexicans, who are simply more likely to fail the test, regardless of location or education system.