Oversigning.com
19Jan/1131

Dieon Green was Lied to – Victim of Oversigning

Update: Shortly after this story ran, the Orlando Sentinel pulled it and replaced it with the following.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/recruiting/os-recruiting-deion-green-not-enrolled-ucf-0119,0,4690995.story

Interesting to say the least, but common sense would have you believe that Green was telling the truth about being lied to by Coach Huxtable.  However, he suddenly remembers that they told him it might be a possibility that he would have to defer his early enrollment to the fall.

"They had too many guys on scholarship so they couldn't bring me in." Green said. "I wouldn't say I'm looking elsewhere. I've always been open to listening to anyone.

"They told me in December that it was a possibility that I wouldn't be able to come in early. They told me to be prepared just in case, and to go through with filling out all my courses and all that stuff."

During his first interview with the Sentinel on Wednesday, Green vented about his deep disappointed in not being allowed to enroll at UCF this month, as planned. He later contacted the newspaper to reaffirm his commitment to UCF.

UCF signed three four junior college players and brought them in early -- LB Terran Buck, LB Ray Cottman, DE Toby Jackson and DT Jose Jose. The one scholarship left went to DE Joey Grant, a true freshman from Altamonte Springs Lake Brantley. Those five players will count against last year's alottment of scholarships, of which there were five left over and went unused for various reasons.

That left UCF, and Green, out of options for spring semester. Green was in place if one of the junior college players' enrollment fell through.

Regardless of who you believe, the problem here is still the same, the numbers crunch.  UCF was waiting to see if a group of JUCO players would qualify before allowing Dieon to sign and enroll.  Our position is that this needs to be EXPLICT with the student athlete and there should NEVER BE ANY DOUBT WHATSOEVER as to when he can enroll.  If you are that close to the borderline then just don't commit to anything until you know for sure.  Many coaches are lying to these kids, which most likely was the case here but Deion probably decided it was in his best interest to patch things up with UCF, and doing all they can to keep them from looking elsewhere, regardless if they have the room or not.

Original Post:

Just another sad story of a kid being lied to by coaches and a University that allows oversigning.  Now that the light is on the stories are coming out of the wood works.   This time it is Central Florida.

"I feel like I was lied to. I feel like they weren't 100 percent honest with me the whole time," Green said Wednesday. "They knew how many guys they were bringing in. They knew they were going to be cutting it close. It's not like the numbers changed.

"Coach Huxtable told me that I would be the first high school guy they would bring in. The first guy after all of the juco players and then they brought in Joey Grant (Altamonte Springs Lake Brantley). They brought in Joey and Coach Huxtable told me I would be first in line. He lied to me."

"Signing day is not as clear as it used to be."

"They should have told me about the numbers back closer to when I committed," said Green, who committed July 31. "Coach Huxtable just kept saying, 'We want to bring you in early to help the team.’

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/recruiting/os-recruiting-deion-green-upset-with-ucf-0119,0,4069110.story

Comments (31) Trackbacks (3)
  1. The story appears to have been pulled from the Orlando Sentinel website. Very odd.

  2. Josh,
    I slammed you for only focusing on Alabama and Saban, so I must also give you proper respect for doing due diligence and finding other cases.

    • No problem. This site is not about focusing on Alabama, it’s about the broader picture and solving the problem. If there is a kid out there getting the shaft because of oversigning it goes on the site, no matter what school is involved.

      • I’m glad to hear that, I just didn’t see the proof of such till now. So my concerns of this basically being a site based solely (though I do suspect there is some) on hatred of Saban is retired.

        I’m a big enough man to admit when either I’m wrong, or new evidence points out that my opinion was.

      • Question. Would you have a problem while advocating for an end to oversigning, to at least correct the math? To where either the max added up to 85/4 (which would be a non integer value) or where 25 * 4 = max?

        I think that would be a sufficient compromise. 85 is a ridiculous and arbitrary number.

        • I think that would be a sufficient compromise. 85 is a ridiculous and arbitrary number.

          I have to disagree, strongly. Eighty-five seems to serve the actual requirements of playing the college game of football well. Most colleges have demonstrated that these numbers are more than sufficient to field a team while having enough players on hand to conduct practices, ease freshmen into college football, and to account for injuries and voluntary transfers.

          It seems the real problem here is in viewing college football as an entertainment vehicle, where the driving concern is the quality of play as a function of the return given for fan and TV dollars spent. That just shouldn’t be.

          Even the NFL – where this function is in full effect – uses only 80 roster spots to begin training camp, before cutting down to just 53 players.

          • You’re a hard guy to please for Cripes sake.

            Then fine. Lower it to 20 per year, and make the cap 80. 20 * 4 = 80. Anything to where the number of signees per year equals the number of total you can have on the roster. But 85 and 25 don’t add up.

            • gotta agree. I have wondered why it they didnt say you can just take 20 a year period. it would end a lot of speculation and numbers guessing

              • I would have NO problems, and I would be against oversigning if the number you could sign per year equaled out to the total you could have period.

                20/21 would be fine per year. Right now, NCAA’s new math is a problem.

                • The suggestion has been made recently that the limit be raised considerably–to 125. This would eliminate any chance of there being anything could even be vaguely construed as tryouts, and the entire oversigning issue would go away. No one has addressed that at all.

                  CHB, I suppose I could get real obstinate like you tend to and stamp my feet and insist that people talk about this, but the fact is that the gentleman that is the author of this site would have no interest in addressing it, because the need for this site would vanish.

                  The fact is, it doesn’t matter IF 80 would work, or 85 would work. If the raises the limits, you could give scholarships to more deserving walk-ons than get them now, there wouldn’t be very few of these transfers to D2 schools, and most of you would need to find another cause. The total cost of the additional schollies could easily be absorbed by the huge preponderance of D-1 schools, so expense is no reason not to do it either.

                  But you guys aren’t really focused on fixing the system so much as you are fixated on weakening the SEC. That much is quite plain to see.

          • “It seems the real problem here is in viewing college football as an entertainment vehicle, where the driving concern is the quality of play as a function of the return given for fan and TV dollars spent. That just shouldn’t be.” Sadly, that ship has sailed brother.

    • he has done pieces on Miles at LSU, Nutt at Ole miss and a few others I cant remember at the time.

  3. “Being lied to”? How was he being lied to? He was told that he might not be able to enroll early, and that’s what happened. So now it’s horrific if a kid is told that he might not be able to enroll early and if that very piece of information turns out to be true, then it’s because the school lied?

    I know you want to fill your site up with articles that support your case, but don’t you have any abiility whatsoever to discern what is and isn’t salient to the issue? This is baloney.

    • In the original story, Dieon said he was lied to by the coaching staff. He said he was told that he would be the first high school kid they would bring in early and that was not the case; they brought in another high school kid first.

      Why should there ever be any doubt? He said he was lied to; cut and dry. After the story runs he gets cold feet and calls the newspaper back to smooth things over. I’m sure no one at UCF had anything to do with that.

      Why people like you defend scumbag lying coaches that make tons of money exploiting kids is beyond me.

      • So just so long as I understand you, you come down on this issue as follows:

        1) Kid says it, it’s true
        2) Coach says it, it’s bullshit

        Is this what you mean by cut and dry?

        The Sentinel is reporting this that he was told he may not be able to enroll when he wanted to, which appears to be what happens in some of these greyshirt situations (coaches warn the players of that possibility). But if the kid is subsequently unhappy with that outcome, then it’s appropriate to demonize the coaches and lionize the kids. Is that accurate?

        • You’re being deliberately dense here.

          Nothing you’ve written in two posts so far portrays the events exactly as they happened. You chide josh for an inability to be discerning, then in your cute little 2-step listing of events show a complete lack of ability to discern why the kid turns on a dime to recant his original words, and why the author would then be required to change his story.

          The ability to “discern” would have you understanding that no one seeks out a reporter just because they’re disappointed: people do that when they strongly believe they’ve suffered an injustice or been wronged in some major way. That’s not something you have a faulty memory about – then suddenly recover the ability to remember the “true” reason for your outrage-now-turned-disappointment.

          But I suspect you knew all of this already.

          • I agree with you on this CHB, but the process does tend to lean in Player = Always telling truth; Coach = Always lying.

            Not saying there isn’t evidence of this, but it seems to be the starting ground.

            • But generally, bad actors remain consistent, and will have a track record that either supports or indicts them. So we do have a way determining where the benefit of the doubt should be extended.

              • True, and I’d agree to an extent. Other than we don’t really know what is being promised by either side. I mean actually being promised rather than what the intent (education) is.

        • Dont kid yourself…..these coaches lie and tell these kids what they want to hear everyday.

  4. How is this an oversigning problem? If the kid was told he could enroll early, would that not signal that the team was undersigned from the year before, thus creating room for the early enrollee? This leads to much of what I argue – oversigning is not bad regardless of how often it is stated on this site. The problem comes from coaches lying to students about what they can expect. If a coach has done this it is wrong – however if a coach oversigns but the players receiving greyshirts are all aware of it beforehand, there is no problem. In this situation, an assistant coach may have told him something that ended up to be untrue. This coach is no longer on the team, and the player did say that the head coach never represented that he would be the 1st taken. CHB, is there a pattern at UCF of lying to players? Is it possible that the assistant coach was simply mistaken when he told the kid this? It would be no less unfortunate, but reasonable none the less. I feel that the benefit of the doubt should be extended in all directions.

    • But that’s the whole POINT, He WASN’T told that. He was told they MIGHT be able to find him a spot.

      You must not have kids, because if you did then you would know that when you tell a child “maybe”, that they tend to think of it as yes. If anyone needs to lear discernment, it’s you.

      It’s also important to note that neither George O’Leary nor anyone else from UCF is going to lift a finger to get in the middle of this, and nor should they. There is nothing to be gained from their trying to confirm or deny anything, because the reporter is going to write what he wants and portray how he wants, without much regard for the facts. Sort of like the author of this site.

  5. I still don’t get it. If it makes everyone happy why not make a rule that if a school signs a kid, the school becomes responsible for providing him a four year scholarship regardless of it being athletic or academic. This means that any kid signed is guaranteed to get a degree. If the kid doesn’t make it on the team, the school then has to suck it up and provide the scholarship anyway but he wouldn’t stay on the team. But that wouldn’t be good enough for the people on this site. This site isn’t about the “poor student athlete”–it’s about winning. I don’t have a problem with wanting to win but call it like it is.

    • because schools like Alabama and LSU would be happy to do that because the money they make off the kid. When youre at a school who is all about winning giving a kid a academic scholarship is nothing and this would be abused worse than it already is. Meaning the monetary trade-off of an academic scholarship vs Money earned winning a Conference/National Title.

      • So you admit that you don’t really care about the academic thing, you care about how many recruits are gone after.

        Because otherwise you’d be happy with MEG’s idea, because it took care of what most blather about, the education of the players.

  6. In the recap of Alabama’s players who did not have their scholarships renewed, every single case was legit. What is wrong with you? Injuries, discipline, rules violations, grades, all of these kids had issues that were dealt with in the manner Saban chose. Saban wasn’t required to do any damm thing for these kids. What part about that don’t you get? This isn’t any different at any school, D3 through D1. Bama’s numbers may show up at the top of the list, but arguably they are the hottest school in the nation with regard to recruiting and players wanting opportunities. Another point is that the recruiting ‘national championship’ isn’t won with sheer numbers signed, it’s the average rating points. Bama won this year with (I think) 21 signees. Other schools close behind had far more players signed, but not as high an average rating.
    Your ten year total had Auburn at the top in terms of the average players signed per year. Can you do a recap on what happened to each or their year’s team rosters and how 28 signees a season every single year can keep them at 85 scholarships? Did they sign players they knew would flunk out? It happens all the time. At least some of these kids get a shot at the NFL. If you think these schools are slighting the “student athlete”, you are probably right, but none of the schools you are cursing about created the cesspool known as NCAA football, the NCAA did. It’s professional football, except that all the money goes to the NCAA, the conferences, the teams, etc. The sport is also a tremendous source of funds for title IX sports where proper funding will never come from ticket sales, merchandise, advertising, etc.

    Basically, your intense interest and due diligence has produced a profound statement of the obvioius. You, sir, are Don Quixote. You are jousting with windmills. Where is Sancho Ponza?

    • Alabama won with 22, but where whole they have been with 12-14, which is what they most likely had room for on signing day? Further, there is absolutely no question that saban and the rest would have taken 28 this year had it not been for this site and the buzz surrounding the topic.


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