19Jan/1171
Dr. Saturday Weighs In on Oversigning – Must Read
This is one of the best articles written on the current state of oversigning. National Media Members, you have been given your marching orders - drill these coaches about their numbers - generate heat on the coaches, university presidents, and the NCAA. It is the only way that the abuse of oversigning and the lying and abusing of kids will stop. Now is the time!!!
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January 20th, 2011 - 06:34
Problem with oversigning is…and I would be the first to say: It’s NOT ok to lie or mistreat kids…the kids commit and then change their mind all the time. You almost can’t blame the universities for covering their tails! Somebody ought to be teaching kids (parents!) about integrity!
January 20th, 2011 - 08:57
That’s no kind of defense for oversigning.
I just wrote in another thread that kids who do that represent the outliers to the vast number of kids who go through the recruiting process honorably, attend school and use the scholarship to get educated and earn a degree.
As well, the coaches do their fair share of jerking the recruits around, stringing them along with offers that never materialize, pulling offers late, and changing the status of scholarships after they’re signed (Elliot Porter).
Coaches who do these things likely also represent the outliers. Same as the coaches who oversign. As outliers though, there’s justification to continue to tweak the recruiting and scholarship rules in order to add the needed accountability on all sides, but most particularly in the area of oversigning.
January 21st, 2011 - 00:59
One small counter…Kids are 16,17,18 when they commit based on promises from coaches and universities….coaches and university officials are adults…30,40.50.60.70 yr old people lying to children is not “almost” wrong…its wrong… i also agree that this is not a plausible defense to oversign..
January 20th, 2011 - 08:51
That’s no kind of defense for oversigning.
I just wrote in another thread that kids who do that represent the outliers to the vast number of kids who go through the recruiting process honorably, attend school and use the scholarship to get educated and earn a degree.
As well, the coaches do their fair share of jerking the recruits around, stringing them along with offers that never materialize, pulling offers late, and changing the status of scholarships after they’re signed (Elliot Porter).
Coaches who do these things likely also represent the outliers. Same as the coaches who oversign. As outliers though, there’s justification to continue to tweak the recruiting and scholarship rules in order to add the needed accountability on all sides, but most particularly in the area of oversigning.
January 20th, 2011 - 08:58
Please delete this, as it’s posted in the wrong location.
January 20th, 2011 - 08:58
Interestingly, Elliot Porter has enrolled for spring semester at LSU. Is there any chance that his experience wasn’t as horrifc as was portrayed here, or is this just an example of Porter trying to make sure this site has more ammo to fire shots at the SEC and LSU by letting them screw him around some more?
January 20th, 2011 - 09:24
Is there a point in there somewhere?
I suspect not, since if you believed you had one you would’ve explicitly stated it.
If there is indeed a point, please make it.
January 20th, 2011 - 14:17
Ha. Seriously.
Oversigning defenders never really argue that the practice is a good one. They just throw out a bunch of nonsense in attempt to obfuscate the reality.
The South has long worked this way when it comes to institutional injustice. Deny, spin, obfuscate, etc… until outsiders and enough conscientious Southerners rally to fix the problem. Southern institutions never take the lead on fixing social injustices. They just eventually consent to having them fixed after a lot of kicking and screaming.
January 20th, 2011 - 14:34
Wow, what a stuck up Yankee attitude. Nice generalizations. Also nice job trying to equate this with Jim Crow, Civil Rights, or slavery.
You’re one of the worst anti-defenders at blowing things out of proportion.
January 20th, 2011 - 15:17
Admittedly the South has a troubling past regarding social injustice which extends in an unabashed, quite overt fashion to as recently as the early 1970′s.
That said, there are enough facts and good arguments – some of which you yourself have provided on this site – to “win” this debate, such that the cause would be better served by letting those things speak for themselves, without the instantly polarizing tangential material – valid or not – to distract from the strong case that’s being made.
January 20th, 2011 - 15:28
Polarizing is a mild word for it.
January 20th, 2011 - 08:56
One of the oft-stated defenses of oversigning I’d read on the board was that only this site was talking about oversigning, and that nobody else cared – so it was just a waste of time and evidence of a vendetta against a conference and a particular SEC coach. I guess that’s not the case – as many of us have insisted all along. Time to retire that baseless refrain.
January 20th, 2011 - 09:02
So long as other situations are brought up fairly and evenly, and it doesn’t look like a single ax to grind, I can stipulate that I have no problem retiring that case.
January 20th, 2011 - 09:02
And I do realize the complete irony of me using the word fairly. *facepalm*
January 23rd, 2011 - 00:05
And that is why there is an entire list of schools posted on the oversigning cup thread. This is provided as information for everyone to mull over to see where a particular school stands on the matter. Its obvious which schools who are taking full “advantage” of oversigning to gain competitive advantage!
January 24th, 2011 - 09:09
You say competitive advantage. I say doing everything within the stated guidelines and rules.
If there were rules being broken, I’d advocate the hammer being brought down. But until there is, some people think it’s wrong, some people think it’s exactly what college football has become. And that process started well before Nick Saban.
January 20th, 2011 - 10:56
Dr. Saturday neglected to mention that Elliot Porter is a current student at Louisiana State University and a member of our football team. He had the chance to play at Kentucky on scholarship but he was homesick. In the end, all he wanted was to go to school at LSU and play football so he walked on for this spring.
January 20th, 2011 - 11:40
Being back at LSU doesn’t change that he was jerked around an materially harmed by the practice of oversigning. No mention of that by Dr. Saturday would change that.
Fact is, it only serves to underscore that real harm was done – as now the kid is screwed out of two years of a scholarship. Plus now Les Miles gets rewarded even more handsomely for his misdeed, since he gets a free two-year tryout from the kid before possibly offering a scholarship. But generally, as far as a scholarship goes, the kid is screwed, as he has no leverage remaining.
January 20th, 2011 - 14:38
Yeah, this Elliot Porter kid could use some one-on-one advice from you, because he appears to be so ignorant of how badly he was and now is being screwed, that he re-enrolled at LSU and wants to play football there. I couldn’t agree more, however, that the fact he has done this simply underscores YOUR point. Really, I think only your points make any sense whatsoever. Certainly the only reason I come to the site is to read your insights.
January 20th, 2011 - 12:55
Josh.
Is there a way that you can focus some not on oversigning itself, but the root cause?
To me, and possibly CHB, the root cause is, whether those kids are there for an education or not.
Ethically and technically, as much as I hate to, agree with CHB, that those kids are there for a degree.
But realistically and personally, I know that in many schools that isn’t the case. Either the kids are there to take the next step to the pros, or the coaches are there to evaluate and trim talent, as that is what they view (and I can’t disagree) an athletic scholarship to be.
January 20th, 2011 - 13:40
There are cases you see individually–like Jeremiah Masoli transferring to Ole Miss so he could get his Master’s degree in Parks and Recreation management (read: avoid the one year transfer wait)– that would be easy to legislate against, but the underlying problem is hard to treat. To paraphrase what you said, the ideal is that the athletes are there to be play football while earning a degree, not studying while playing football. Obviously the latter that happens at all levels of college football and is the norm for most schools, but until we figure out how to treat that (I wish I knew), it’s best to stick to problems we know can be fixed immediately, like this one.
January 20th, 2011 - 13:59
Right, but that is the root cause, and I imagine that nobody on either side would disagree.
Either the kid is there to get an education (ideally, but in all likelihood probably not), or he is there to play football, and if he gets a degree fine, if not fine. And probably if he did, the degree wouldn’t do him any good.
Till that problem is fixed, I would have no problem with oversigning, because as things are, education is a thinly layered facade. The focus truely is the athletics, and not the student. And honestly, as a fan, I can’t say I don’t enjoy it that way.
January 20th, 2011 - 20:10
Except this won’t be “fixed” immediately. You guys must not have spent a whole lot of time watching Congress. Have you ever wondered why we don’t use dollar coins instead of dollar bills? It costs about the same amount o mint a coin as it does to make a bill, and the coin last 10 times longer in circulation. So why not force Americans to do it? Because too many Americans LIKE using the dollar bill. So it doesn’t get changed. Logic, or the desires of a very outspoken group, don’t have one GD thing to do with it.
Many of you are stuck on the notion that the voice crying out in the wilderness thing, that become voices, that becomes a throng, will effect change. Dream on. The “loophole” that freed Cam Newton and the one that let the Tatt 5 play in the Sugar Bowl will get changed right away. The NCAA already announced they were doing so. Don’t you think they KNOW about oversigning? You surely can’t be that dense. It ain’t gonna happen guys. At least not “immediately”.
January 21st, 2011 - 07:42
I was curious as to why Ohio State just cut thie offensive lineman. The article doesn’t defend the move at all. It just says that he was RELEASED. Hmmm.
http://www.daytondailynews.com/dayton-sports/ohio-state-buckeyes/bellbrooks-longo-released-from-ohio-state-1059982.html
January 21st, 2011 - 08:17
I was curious as to why you’re being deliberately obtuse?
January 21st, 2011 - 08:20
Why I am being obtuse? You must be joking. So an Ohio State kid announces he’s transferring and it’s just ordinary business, but an SEC kid announces he’s transferring (a la Star Jackson), and it’s time to bring in the feds to investigate. Don’t be a jackass. You are the pot calling the kettle black.
January 21st, 2011 - 08:27
Ah, Star Jackson competed in the Spring Game last year against an oversigned roster; his decision to transfer and announcement came after the spring game. Longo is transferring before signing day against a roster that has room for him. Furthermore, the Big 10 closely monitors oversigning and does not allow it and Jim Tressel has a 10 year proven track record of not oversigning but undersigning on purpose and giving scholarships to walk-ons so as to avoid the risk and harm that comes with oversigning.
Not only are YOU being the jackass, you are ill-informed and obtuse. But hey, if you want to defend the slimeball practice of oversigning that’s your choice.
January 21st, 2011 - 08:32
The reason I defend it, is because I don’t actually view it as an academic scholarship. The NCAA is a semi-pro shop.
And just to gig you, Tressel has a proven track record of choking in the BCS title game too
January 21st, 2011 - 08:34
You are deliberately skirting the issue. Longo was RELEASED from his schollie.
The question is WHY?
It makes no difference whether the Big Ten doesn’t allow oversigning. That has notjhing to do with Longo being RELEASED. What has happened is that Ohio State has RELEASED a kid thqat wasn’t cutting it so that they can fill his slot with someone they think is better. Whether this means anything vis-a-vis the 85 is hardly pertinent. Ohio State just did something that you portray as despicable. Now it’s time for you to step up and decry this just as you do when other players transfer.
Or have you forgotten your OWN ENTRY from merely DAYS ago?
http://oversigning.com/testing/index.php/2010/11/30/starting-early/
January 21st, 2011 - 09:10
I don’t want to have a good belly laugh at you’re expense…but are you seriously under the delusion that word “RELEASE” as is being used in those articles the same way it is used as regards NFL cuts?
Seriously?
You do understand that a kid who wants to leave a school and then be put on scholarship at another school has to obtain the permission of the school he’s leaving – called seeking a release – in order to be eligible for that other scholarship?
You do know this don’t you – because nothing you’ve written indicates that you understand that’s what “release” means?
January 21st, 2011 - 09:22
You are obviously a complete idiot. Longo is being released from his scholarship is EXACATLY the same thing as what happened in the case of B.J. Scott at Alabama, who sought, and was granted, a release from his scholarship. Only the author of this website sought to portray this as being something a bit more sinister:
http://oversigning.com/testing/index.php/2010/11/30/starting-early/
B.J. Scott was one of the most ballyhooed prospects at Alabama in recent years, and it simply didn’t work out for him. It would be no different if a Harvard MBA took a job at a great company, but languished there and decided to “take his talents” (a la LeBron) elsewhere. But because Scott was an Alabama player, the author had to ascribe sinister motives to the whole process.
So unless you are just dumb as a rock, and you may be, then what I am saying, and let me know if this needs to be any clearer for you, is that this Longo kid is leaving, and for the same reason that B.J. Scott and Star Jackson left.
So either the author of this site is going to address this and make it obvious that he is using a different standard for these schools, because that is what his agenda is, or someone else needs to do it for him.
January 21st, 2011 - 10:16
You:
Me:
Seems like we’re saying the same thing – well, that is, after you stepped away from clearly miscasting the Ohio State kid’s transfer situation with your initial post:
Hence, my quite accurate “deliberately obtuse” reply to you.
By the way, you really suck at name calling (it’s not supposed to make me laugh, is it?)
January 21st, 2011 - 11:04
CHB, you make salient points. But Joshua said there was no way a player would leave a major school for a smaller school, just for playing time. He said it doesnt happen, that a player must be forced out. He even said
“Exactly how is Star Jackson’s life being improved by going to a lesser school? Playing time? If he sucks as bad as you say he does with his inability to understand an offense, which could easily be an indictment on Saban’s recruiting ability, then he is not likely to make it to the NFL. Wouldn’t a degree from Alabama and the experience of being coached by Alabama for 4 years be worth more to Jackson then some playing time at a crap 1AA school where he will receive lesser coaching and a lesser degree?”
so he is another person that believes a school is crap if they arent some Div 1 football power, and that in no way would a person transfer strictly to have more playing time. And that is his quote, “a crap 1AA school where he will receive a lesser degree.” Guess he didnt know GSU has 22k students and has one of the top rated Law programs in the nation, but yeah, its a crap school. (roll eyes here)
January 21st, 2011 - 11:07
oh, and the lesser coaching? the coach is Bill Curry, multiple coach of the year award winner, pro-bowl NFL player, 2-time super bowl winner, member of GA sports hall of fame. Yeah, that is a crappy coach.
January 21st, 2011 - 14:57
Josh has to answer for himself regarding that. Josh and I support the anti-oversigning cause, and where Josh and I agree, I support his position fully.
But I’ve given my own take on this and can only support the positions I take. Only Josh can speak for himself when our positions diverge.
I know for a fact that a Div IAA school not far from me – U of Delaware. thrives on taking Div IA castoffs and getting some a look by the NFL.
January 21st, 2011 - 13:37
Yes, thie was a typo. Not sure what to make or your (as opposed to you’re) typo in an earlier post. And when I said “just cut”, for all I know that’s what happened. Surely you aren’t suggesting, AGAIN, that OSU kids simply transfer under 100% legitimate scenarios, and that when any other kid from an SEC school transfers, it needs to be put under an entire different level of scrutiny. Sorry, for all I know the kid was cut flat out by the staff, and to portray it that way is every bit as fair as your (not you’re) doing the same thing.
As far as how you react to my posts? I couldn’t give a crap.
January 21st, 2011 - 15:06
The use of “(sic)” isn’t a commentary or critique – it just indicates that my quote is verbatim, that’s all. No need for a tit-for-tat there.
Show me where:
Tressel has gotten caught in a numbers squeeze and forced a kid out; or
A kid telling the Wall Street Journal that he was forced out by Tressel, that it’s a business or that Tressel lied about why he left and then you’ll be on to something.
Until then, you’re entitled to your own opinions, but not your own “facts”.
January 23rd, 2011 - 11:07
See there is where I do not see requiring a recruiting budget will fix anything. Yes schools would not be able to oversign on NSD but the practices that people are unhappy with to get under the 85 would just take place before NSD. I am not saying that the player who just transferred from OSU was anything more than him wanting to, which is fine.
But what will CJT do now? According to the current data OSU has reached it limit. Any more additions to the team will cause them to oversign. The UF boards are blowing up because with the coaching change CJT and staff have been in contact with J Story a WR and most UF fans feel right now he might switch to OSU. Also it looks like C Grant a LB is down to OSU and UF with OSU standing a good chance. OSU also contacted J Vaughters last week because of the coaching changes at Stanford and inquired if he would be interested in OSU now. My question is if one or all three players decide to they want to come to OSU will a spot be made available and how? Also if CJT does not practice oversigning and OSU is at their limit for the class why are they still contacting these players, epsecially ones that are currently commited? Should they not just close down recruiting at this point to keep from oversigning?
The reason I ask a whole thread was dedicated to UAs recruiting weekend last week and how they should not be bringing in any more recruits, but yet OSU is still offering and trying to get player to switch so what is the difference?
I am not trying to call out or start an arguement, just curious to your response on those questions.
January 23rd, 2011 - 16:08
This not a difficult point at all.
Here are two points of reference to help you ascertain the answers you’re looking for, to the degree that any of us can know the specifics at this point in time.
First: refer to the Big 10′s very specific rules on allowable oversigning here.
Next, familiarize yourself intimately with Tressel’s approach to recruiting and signing players here
Last, you should find that all you really needed to know is that with the combined effect of the Big 10 rules and Tressel’s approach to recruiting:
no player will be asked to surrender his football scholarship in order to accommodate a new recruit;
no player will arrive on campus and then be forced to delay enrollment to a later quarter in order to accommodate a new recruit;
and no player will be forced to take a medical scholarship in order to accommodate a new recruit.
How can I be so certain of these things, beyond the points of reference that I offered? Track record. Past is prologue.
Just as Nick Saban’s record of having about 50 percent of the SEC’s medical scholarships will likely mean that between now and August three or four players will end up with a medical scholarship at a rate that is far outside the range that would be considered reasonable and suggestive of acceptable administration of the medical scholarship policy.
January 23rd, 2011 - 17:45
So if the Big10 is allowed to oversign by 3 should not the rest of the conferences be afforded the same. I am a little confused. The oversigning cup should not really start obtaining points until after the +3 since many on here feel the Big10 is the gold standard.
I guess I fail to understand some posters who jumped all over UA for bringing in recruits last weekend because they were over the limit, but I do not see the difference for a team that is at the limit and still offering. Again no matter what happens at this point OSU could sign 1 or 2 more players or they may not. But if they do somehow room will have to be made.
Based on your answers I just do not see how these extra players if any will have a place since the current players will still have their spot because CJT will renew their scholarship. Which I credit him in doing so, but if I am reading what I think you are saying that OSU will not oversign and these other players even if they decide now will not be a part of OSU.
So basically since CJT does not oversign he will no longer accept commits for this class. Which will probably make UF fans happy since 2 of the ones I am referring to will end up there if not OSU.
January 23rd, 2011 - 19:20
The Big 10 does not allow oversigning by 3. What they allow is the signing of 3 over the max that can be enrolled in a single year, 25. They do this with stipulations such as, 1. you have to petition the conference to get permission to accept the 3 LOI over 25, 2. you have to prove that you had room in the previous class for those three extra recruits (meaning you had to have enrolled 22 players or less in the previous year), 3. the three extra over 25 have to enroll in December and count towards the previous year, and 4. you will not be allowed to accept the 3 LOI if taking 25 in the current class would put you over.
Basically, there is NO OVERSIGNING in the Big 10, however, they changed the conference rules back in 2002 to allow teams to sign 28 and have 3 enroll early and count to the previous class as long as you have room for the 25 others in the current class and room for all of them under the 85.
Prior to 2002 Big 10 teams were just out of luck – even if you had room for 35 under the 85 limit and you could get 10 to enroll early the Big 10 would not let you take more than 25. They didn’t even want to come close to oversigning because they knew of the risk and abuse the players would be subjected to.
January 21st, 2011 - 22:49
There are no sacred cows here…if Tressel is guilty of running a kid off to make roster space he will get the same treatment as Saban, although anyone who honestly believes that is even remotely true has not taken the time to watch Jim Tressel’s video on roster management and how he intentionally undersigns to avoid the risk of oversigning and then awards any scholarship that is left over to a deserving walk-on. Was Longo’s transfer in and of itself similar to BJ Scott’s, it appears that way in that both asked for a release and were granted a release, but I don’t think you can discount the the following conditions: did the transfer happen because of an oversigned roster? No. Does the coach or the school have a history of oversigning or running off players because of roster space? No.
I stand by my position that I do not think it is in the student-athlete’s best interest to transfer down simply for playing time – most of the time these are guys who have little or no chance of making it in the NFL and will be going pro in something else as the NCAA would say, and in those cases and degree from Ohio State would carry more weight than a degree from a less prestigious university.
January 22nd, 2011 - 08:45
like i said, a law degree from “crap 1-aa” GSU is worth more than OSU. There are very good schools that arent football factories. I guess Villanova isnt a good school, they are Div 1-aa. Guess a degree from Georgetown isnt worth much either, in your eyes. Very elitist point of view from you.
January 22nd, 2011 - 14:16
For football players, all that matters is the undergraduate program, which means that yes, GSU is crap compared to OSU by that standard.
January 22nd, 2011 - 16:40
umm, look into the real world. They look that you have an undergrad degree from an accredited college. That is it. Unless you are going to be a lawyer or doctor, the college is immaterial to it. In the real world OSU undergrad degree = GSU undergrad degree
January 24th, 2011 - 09:13
Ding ding ding. Unless your undergrad degree is from an Ivy League, or a Vanderbuilt or Stanford, it doesn’t matter, so long as it is accredited.
January 22nd, 2011 - 15:33
This shows your ignorance, because these kids WANT TO PLAY. Yes, they want to get a degree, and maybe Choice A is to get their degree from OSU. But if it means they will ride the pine for 4 years, like Longo must have thought, then they transfer. It’s really quite simple. Only someone who was never an accomplished athlete would fail to get that.
January 23rd, 2011 - 16:00
The big kicker here is Ohio State has roster spots available and they are not cutting him to make room for an oversigned roster.
January 26th, 2011 - 00:35
OSU did not determine that Longo was not cutting it. Longo made that decision. He decided he wanted to head elsewhere. This will happen everywhere and does happen everywhere. The difference is that OSU doesn’t force this because they are over the limit for their scholarship commitments. Having several people transfer every year in addition to having several medical hardships every year in addition to having several greyshirts every year is different then having one kid transfer. One program is abusing the rules and it is not Ohio State.
January 21st, 2011 - 11:14
Actually, it appears that Ohio State needed the room for Grant and Walker nd some others.
January 21st, 2011 - 15:08
Is that a fact or an opinion?
Let us know when you’ve decided – then back it up.
January 21st, 2011 - 15:26
Just like you do when you make your unsubstantiated and baseless claims, right?
January 23rd, 2011 - 15:30
If you’ve found something, then let’s hear about it.
Otherwise this is nothing more that standard oversigning defenders “intimated point without really making a point” point.
You know, like “…it actually appears that Ohio State needed the room”. Well? Did they or didn’t they? Get the facts in order and make a declarative statement.
January 21st, 2011 - 09:22
This is what I wrote on January 18, 2011 about the Alabama kid’s transfer:
But you call me the jackass after you try to twist the straightforward situation that is OSU kid transferring?
Pretty weak on your part, don’t you think?
January 22nd, 2011 - 22:25
I think that CHB has been relentlessly roasted with logic in this thread. When OSU players transfer, it is completely legitimate. When Bama players transfer, it is an underhanded plot.
January 23rd, 2011 - 00:20
this would be a valid question if Ohio State continuously abused the amount of scholarships they had to over (oversigning) BUT they dont!
January 21st, 2011 - 07:50
At face value it would seem that a lot of these coaches are getting rid of players that may not get playing time and this seems logical. But, I start thinking about it and maybe they need to sign this many players due to probability of qualifying academically for college. (Now before I continue I want to state that I’m not saying I’m in favor of the practice, I just wanted to give it a different perspective). I went to the NAEP (Nation Assessment of Education Progress) website and did some very rudimentary investigating. Firstly, I assumed that most recruits were from the same state as their college of choice. Secondly, I assumed the data from the eighth grade would also be valid for the twelth grade. Thirdly, I took a look at every school in the country who had signed more players over a ten year period than the highest Big Ten school (Purdue) and wrote down what state their were in. I then used Purdue’s home state of Indiana as the baseline data for my investigation. In studying the data from 2009 for eighth grade students in both reading and math, I found that no SEC state was higher in both categories and only two (Kentucky and Florida) were comparitively as good in any of the two categories. As far as the rest of the conferences go only three Big 12 states (Missouri, Iowa, Kansas) were as good in both categories; Washington and Oregon also fell in this category. And no conference had a state that exceeded Indiana’s scores. I have a friend who used to recruit for the Navy (the service not the football team) and he stated that in his territory of northern Alabama that many times he would run into recruits who had decent grades in school, but couldn’t pass the entrance exam to get into the Navy. He even had a school valedictorian who couldn’t make it! I’m not saying all, but I would assume that a few (3 or less) of the oversigned players may be because they won’t pass the ACT/SAT to even enter college. I know it is easy to demonize the coaches for the practice, and I wholeheartedly agree that cutting players to make room for better players is a travesty, but some may be to the cold hard fact that some of the players will not qualify. By the way, I’m a diehard Buckeye fan, so please don’t assume that I’m a SEC homer making excuses. Thanks!
January 21st, 2011 - 08:03
Great, great stuff!!!! If you don’t mind, I would like to post a follow up on this along with the links that you used for your research.
With regards to the issue, the SEC should not be allowed to subsidize their academic attrition by oversigning to compensate for academics — there are plenty of kids that are academically eligible to play sports, they might not be as good as a guy who runs a 4.3 40 but can’t spell cat if you spot him the c and the t, but they are out there and SEC schools should be required to go them just like the rest of the country.
January 21st, 2011 - 08:18
It’s a good thing you aren’t a debater. On the one hand you are taking the position that these poor kids are being mis-handled, like this Longo kid that was just cut at Ohio State (I assume you’ll be reporting at length on this), but you’re trying to play both sides of the fence and saying that schools can’t be allowed to sign a kid in the winter unless his grades and test scores already qualify him for admission?
This is the ultimate double standard, and certainly makes it appear as though all you’re really trying to do is cut off every approach some schools use to recruit kids, including trying to work with them in the proper way to ensure they get their academics in order. So which is it, are you trying to HELP or HURT these kids?
January 21st, 2011 - 08:34
But nobody who pays to go see a game wants to see an academic all star. They want to see the dumb as bricks 4.3 40. That’s the reality.
January 21st, 2011 - 11:14
yep. Just like in basketball, you see at the end of the game, the GPA all-star on the team, some white kid who has played 5 mins total all year long.
January 21st, 2011 - 21:13
No, I don’t mind at all.
January 21st, 2011 - 09:58
Data such as this, which on its face seems to be of value to oversigning defenders, is pure gold for opponents of oversigning and should be widely propagated. The value in it being that it shows just how out of balance athletics has gotten within certain universities and conferences, that virtually no thought is given to administering the athletic programs according to the high school model – participation being a privilege for eligible enrolled students. Instead, too many universities willingly pimp out athletes that are marginally qualified, under-qualified and non-qualified the entertainment value and money-generating ability.
It’s not at all unlike the Alaskan crabbers who cast a long line of traps, reel them in, then measure and discard, measure and keep, measure and discard. Except with these particular universities, these aren’t crabs, but kids that are getting tossed overboard. And since there was never a real concern about their academic ability or continued education beyond getting them in and keeping them eligible, it’s really just come down to being about what they could provide the university community in terms of fan interest, and television, ticket and merchandise dollars generated.
January 24th, 2011 - 09:17
I don’t disagree with you. The difference is, I don’t see a problem with it. You want the best talent, you have to hold your nose to go get it.
You want the most hardware and spotlight, and positive comments about the talent of your team, you make sure you have the most and best talent.
You and I both agree that college football is not running on what the ideal is. The problem is, that university presidents don’t care. Football brings in too much money and prestige, and alums love it.
They know if they started making sure that they put the best students out there, football would be like…. well Vandy.
January 21st, 2011 - 09:56
To writer guy (Josh?)
Your USC budget, does it take into account that they have 9 early entrants that can count back? They undersigned drastically last year. IMO, this was a deliberate move to prepare themselves for sanctions.
Also, I don’t think the sanctions apply till after their appeal. Not sure how you show that because I never thought USC oversigned. I’ve always pointed towards them and said that they can use their depth chart to get better players as a reason for LSU to not oversign.
January 21st, 2011 - 14:53
yes. the scholarship distribution chart for USC right now is 60 on scholarship. They have 25 commitments thus far. =82 Scholarships total (3 early enrollees have already been added to the count of 60). Even if they count back, the bottom line is they have 82 scholarships filled up so far no matter how you look at it.
They are sanctioned! They are currently under an appeal and asking to have their penalty reduced by half. Many people believe this appeal will not go through because the leniency of the sanctions in the first place. Even if they do get their sanctions reduced by half, they would still be over the mark of 80 scholarships by 2!
USC previously in the Pete Carrol era did not oversign. It appears Lane Kiffin is taking a different stance on the matter because last weekend they hosted 17 recruits on campus (some commits and some uncommitted). We will see how it plays out.
January 21st, 2011 - 14:04
The problem is expecting the media to do anything. When it comes to sports, the only time you can get the media to moralize a damn thing is steroids. Then they’re more than willing to get on their high horses and write about it every single day.
January 21st, 2011 - 19:46
The comments at the bottom of the article demonstrate how little the fans care about the concept of “student athlete” and how much they care about the business of winning. I want to win as much as the next guy, but there’s a line in the college game and the NCAA should grow the cajones to enforce it.
January 24th, 2011 - 09:18
The only line, is where the rules are.
January 24th, 2011 - 15:06
It’s sad that the SEC fans think that anyone is buying their little “gotcha” game. I guess those are the little tricks that you have to play when you really can’t defend your conference’s practice. The records speak for themselves with regards to oversigning. The media knows the villians.
It is nice to see the media increasinly reject the arguments put forward by the SEC fans.
February 2nd, 2011 - 21:07
National Media members, do your job and don’t let some bitter blogger push you into something you don’t feel is necessary.