1. 

   Buckskin
   January 29th, 2011 - 12:11

   That al.com article sounds like most of the info came straight from this site. While I support your vision that article had little insight other than the opinions he borrowed from you and Andy Staples.

   Also I just noticed you have USC at +10 on oversigning. You should read this article http://espn.go.com/blog/pac10/post/_/id/18427/opening-the-mailbag-uscs-murky-recruiting. Bottom line is 9 players have already enrolled at USC and will count against last year’s class. Since the NCAA ruling was they could only sign 15 they’d be over by 2 if their appeal fails.

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   • 

     BetterRED
     January 29th, 2011 - 12:17

     and that is why it is up there. That list is compiled by people who visit the site due to the information people come across with a documented link (as you have provided above).

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   • 

     CHB
     January 29th, 2011 - 15:34

     That al.com article sounds like most of the info came straight from this site.

     That’s the nature of facts, particularly numerical facts. They travel well, as does the truth they carry with them. It’s also the nature of this site showing – in that it compiles data from a variety of sources for quick reference.

     Job well done Oversigning.com! Keep up the good work, because it really is true that “oversigning reflects values that are based more on business models than educational missions” – and student-athletes should never be seen as contract employees for university athletic departments.

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     • 

       Catch 5
       January 29th, 2011 - 15:44

       It also shows the danger of this site. The numbers are just guesses from what readers think they know about a team’s scholarship status. This site is neither objective nor complete when presenting facts and opinions. I don’t have a problem with that as far as Joshua and his mission goes, but for a journalist to look here and basically cut and paste it into an article is irresponsible. Yes, the site has become more popular and a central rally point for many, but it is not journalism and should not be taken as such. My problem is that many are doing just that.

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       • 

         CHB
         January 29th, 2011 - 16:02

         Which is a perfectly good tangential discussion, but has no significance regarding the impact of oversigning on student athletes.

         At any rate, most articles I have read on the subject are very well done and clearly offer new perspectives and new information that adds to the strength of the oversigning cause.

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         • 

           BetterRED
           January 30th, 2011 - 12:10

           and these numbers are not entirely a guess. We can narrow down how many scholarships a particular team has offered, how many players on scholarship are leaving, and how many commitments they have for the current year. USC is a unique case on the list due to the sanctions put forth against them. Alabama, LSU and Ole miss numbers are easy because year after year they oversign and have to cut loose their “dead weight”. Oh wait I misspoke, those 12 medical hardships Alabama has had under Saban are just because they have had so many players hurt because he is such a good coach and they practice harder than any other team….hhahahahaha

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2. 

   BetterRED
   January 29th, 2011 - 12:19

   These articles are comical. I especially love the one about LSU where the writer does an extremely good job explaining what a greyshirt is (sarcasm of course). Evidentially the writer is as clueless of oversigning as many of the fans in SEC west country or either they are just putting blinders on so they dont have to accept how unethical it is.

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   • 

     Catch 5
     January 29th, 2011 - 12:28

     Then please assist me in removing the blinders. How is a greyshirt unethical?

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     • 

       BetterRED
       January 29th, 2011 - 12:36

       it is NOT unethical at all when done correctly. It IS unethical when used like Saban, Miles, Nutt by offering a scholarship until they get in a numbers crunch and at the last minute telling the student athlete he will be offered a greyshirt. This is unethical because he is under the assumption he will be given a full ride scholarship so he stops shopping around, eliminating all his options. The coach then tells him he will be given a greyshirt…. very unethical and in most cases I believe done on purpose. Bottom line, greyshirt scholarship should be communicated well beforehand.

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       • 

         Catch 5
         January 29th, 2011 - 12:47

         Show me one recruit that wasn’t told by Saban that he could possibly be asked to greyshirt. I remember an article last year that quoted both players that did get one say that they knew the whole time. There does seem to be a bad pattern of LSU recruits that don’t know the greyshirt is coming, and I’m all for changing the system that makes sure this happens correctly. Go back and read Staples’ suggestions at the end of his article, his last two do a pretty good job of cleaning this up and I’d be all for that. The greyshirt can be a good thing for both school and player and shouldn’t be done away with just because the B10 doesn’t like it.

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         • 

           BetterRED
           January 29th, 2011 - 13:52

           I have absolutely no problem with a greyshirt. I agree it is beneficial for both the school and the player, I just think there needs to be safeguards in place to ensure it is done properly. I am a Nebraska fan and we offered a greyshirt last year to an instate recruit. I know it was communicated beforehand because he had other offers and was deciding on taking one of those scholarships or taking a greyshirt.

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     • 

       Rich
       January 29th, 2011 - 14:47

       The overall theme of this website is simple and straightforward: when you combine all of the recruiting practices adopted by SEC schools and consider them as a whole, the SEC is anchor dragging the rest of College Football towards the “Lowest Common Denominator” standard: if it can’t be proven to be illegal in a court of law, then a university should pursue it.

       It is the SEC as a whole. It does not matter that your SEC school does not adopt a specific practice to the same degree as another SEC school. Oversigning is a practice that has been honed and elevated by the SEC. It is one of the major “gifts” of the SEC to the rest of the College Football community.

       – and in anticipation of the response SEC fans favor— the reason why fans from other conferences “stick their nose into the affairs of the SEC” is that your practices, taken as a whole force the rest of college football to decide to hold their nose and adopt a few of your practices in a limited way or simply decide that it is not worth “winning” if it means adopting the same practices.

       But there is a third way: to continue to shine the spotlight on the SEC’s practices and attempt to use moral condemnation to shame the “academic” leaders of SEC schools to rein in the worst examples of the worst practices. In my view, this site provides such a forum.

       Thus, you can write that “Alabama greyshirts the ‘right’ way.” This might be true and it might not. But clearly, MSU and LSU do not. We will see if South Carolina does. Again, it is the overall composite that matters. I bet that LSU will not continue to execute greyshirting how they have — to much negative attention.

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       • 

         CHB
         January 29th, 2011 - 15:53

         Very well said – particularly about the drag down to the lowest common denominator.

         It seems college athletics has gone nearly as far as it can go in perpetuating the myth of “amateurism”, and turning a blind eye to all the obvious hallmarks of being a semi-pro/pro sports organization involved in inter-sate commerce. It’s teetering on the brink of some abyss which has at its bottom external forces to step in to do the cleanup that college presidents and administrators are too busy counting cash to do themselves.

         What college athletics doesn’t need now is for the SEC ethos that produces practices such as oversigning to creep further into its collective psyche and potentially be that final push that topples it.

         The college presidents need to act on this issue properly – and act now.

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         • 

           Rich
           January 29th, 2011 - 19:35

           I wish. Here is the key point: the alums of Alabama, Auburn, MSU, Ole Miss, Tenn, Arkansas and South Carolina apparently do not care that their degrees do not enable them to compete nationally. I say “apparently” because currently you cannot find me a top twenty graduate program that looks favorably on an applicant that says I graduated from a SEC school (other than Vanderbilt, once in a while Georgia or Florida).

           In the Big Ten, the alums force the schools to preserve the “brand” because the alums compete in national and even global labor markets. Instead, the SEC fans on this site are apparently pleased that graduating from a JUCO is treated as a great preparation for an undergraduate program at Auburn or Alabama. In the Big Ten, a JUCO degree is a signal of poor or inadequate academic preparation. At MSU, it is a ticket to admission.

           The Big Ten faces the type of issue that ND (and Northwestern) faced a decade ago: How do you have an entering class with a 33 ACT and still compete athletically. The fact that the SEC fans absolutely don’t care is a source of great annoyance and frustration.

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           • 

             Mario
             January 29th, 2011 - 23:29

             Rich,

             Although I agree with many of your sentiments, I must respectfully disagree with the above assertion. I received my Bachelors in Finance from the University of Alabama and my law degree from the University of Wisconsin. I am currently pursuing my PhD in Educational Leadership and Policy Analysis from the University of Wisconsin which is consistently ranked in the top 5 programs in the nation.

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             • 

               Rich
               January 31st, 2011 - 07:49

               Mario,

               During your studies I know that you learned about the potential weakness in using a specific case to generalize to an entire category. I have no doubt that there are specific cases of Alabama (or Auburn and so on) graduates who do well. Mario, congratulations.

               What is the average ACT or SAT of the entering class at Alabama? This would be a fact that would be more germane.

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         • 

           HeadScratcher
           January 30th, 2011 - 12:27

           There are college presidents all over the Bigt Ten that are reading this and laughing their asses off. You must be out of yourt mind. I guess since Reggie Germany didn’t make it in the NFL he is now wotking on his PhD and using that Big Ten education to make a difference in the world. Maybe when Duron Carter transfers back to OSU from Coffey Community, where he went, I might add, not because of how tough OSU academics are, but because he was playing XBox instead of studying, he can write a position paper in concert with you on how to get things all cleaned up with sports and academics.

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           • 

             CHB
             January 30th, 2011 - 13:09

             As usual with your posts, you use a sideways approach to advance some intimated message carried on the back of some off-topic comparative that always brings me to ask – is there some point there? If so please state it plainly.

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           • 

             OSU'76
             January 31st, 2011 - 07:52

             Carter’s father having played for tOSU MIGHT have had something to do with his sons decision to go to school there. The reason he is at Coffey Comm. is because he did indeed play XBox instead of studying which is why he no longer attends tOSU. He will not be transferring back since he has not be invited to do so.

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           • 

             Buckeye Fan
             January 31st, 2011 - 10:26

             Duron Carter won’t be coming back to OSU as reported from his mouth “They have not offered.” He was sent there to get his act straight and it did not happen and his academics are still a concern so they are not offering to him, He states that Miami may be a future home for him. So, before you point the finger next time, do a little research first.
             @Mr_Dcarter9: I wanted 2 go back….. they never offered me… so even if i wanted to go back i cant…. sorry

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3. 

   DJ
   January 30th, 2011 - 10:05

   The money line from this article is this one:

   “…oversigning reflects values that are based more on business models than educational missions.”

   That is the whole purpose behind the screaming this website does. A university’s job is to educate. While having a good football program is nice, sports are not the reason universities or colleges exist (though I know that’s a foreign concept to most in the SEC). If it were up to me:

   - Football scholarships would be capped at 72, not 85;
   - Each class would be capped at 20 (no exceptions, if need more on scholarship, give to walk-ons);
   - Scholarships would be three years guaranteed, with one year renewables after the third year.

   Coach makes a mistake in recruiting? Tough; you recruited him, he’s yours…and he gets an education. Also, capping at 72 opens up more scholarships to more sports, makes Title IX compliance easier, and spreads the talent to other schools who want to build solid programs.

   Yes, I’m a Drake Group supporter. http://www.thedrakegroup.org/

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   • 

     BetterRED
     January 30th, 2011 - 17:45

     I dont know about the scholarship count you speak of but I agree with scholarships being guaranteed. Some teams actually live by this rule of thumb anyways because they are good ethical people.

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     • 

       DJ
       January 31st, 2011 - 07:55

       The specific number of 72 was based on nothing more than having enough to go three deep at every regular position (66 total), plus 6 for kickers, punters and whatever else (long snappers?). The number would be negotiable, but there’s no reason for college football teams to have more than 75 on scholarship, other than to keep other players away from the competition.

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       • 

         BetterRED
         January 31st, 2011 - 10:13

         Yeah I agree with the last part. Thats why they set the cap at 85 in the first place because teams were offering scholarships to kids just to keep them away from other teams. There were times when some teams would offer more than 150 scholarships.

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   • 

     CHB
     January 31st, 2011 - 00:15

     Excepting agreement at this time on the specific numbers you propose – I fully support this post, including what I’ve read about the Drake Group on its home page.

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4. 

   ct
   January 31st, 2011 - 09:33

   The saddest part about the reader’s comments are the fact that he must believe that players who do not play much in games are not contributors to the team. Obviously, players contibute in many ways, including practice.

   He specifically mentions Tyler Love. I don’t know much about him, however, according to the Alabama web site this OL played in 6 games as a freshman and another 3 as a sophmore. At most schools, OL generally don’t play much during their first few years. If it became common to yank scholarships from OLs who have only 9 game appearances after 2 years, as the reader suggests, then very few OL would make it to their junior season.

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5. 

   Sanford
   January 31st, 2011 - 12:28

   No posts from Bama fans? I am guessing that article in their hometown paper hurt a bit.

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   • 

     BetterRED
     January 31st, 2011 - 17:00

     and where are the posts from the top 8-10 oversigned teams?

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