Oversigning.com
6Aug/1170

Elliott Porter 2.0

According to this, and take it for what it's worth because it is not an official release from the University, it looks like LSU is in position to have to Elliott Porter someone because they appear to not have enough scholarships for everyone they signed.  This is despite the fact that they have already had a number of players leave for various reasons since NSD.

"LSU fall roster released. Chris Tolliver, Ryan St. Julien and Kellen Theriot are not listed."

http://twitter.com/#!/snslant/statuses/98832125003968512

In addition, 2011 signee Alzono Lewis did not qualify, which brings the total to at least 4 guys combined from the returning roster and the list of players signed in 2011 that will not make it to the roster with one player still pending the NCAA clearinghouse. 

Mickey Johnson signed with LSU in the 2011 class and is in the process of trying to clear the NCAA clearinghouse, and if he clears it is expected that he will join the team because he was not recruited as a greyshirt and there has been no talk of him taking a grayshirt.  Furthermore, Miles expects him to join the team when he clears the NCAA.

"We expect that he will clear," Miles said. "It's just a time issue. That being said, he might join us in August just before school starts.

The other missing recruit is wide receiver Alonzo Lewis of St. James. Miles said Lewis "would not be with us and may go the junior college route. We will still very much follow him."

http://www.nola.com/lsu/index.ssf/2011/08/lsu_football_tigers_report_min.html

The guys over at www.andthevalleyshook.com don't believe there is room for everyone and should Mickey Johnson qualify there won't be room for him under the 85 limit. 

Les Miles manages scholarships about as well as he manages the game clock in the waning seconds of a tight game.  If it does turn out that LSU does not have room for Johnson and someone has to leave the program in order for LSU to stay under the 85 limit LSU should be banned from oversigning for life.  They should have to report their number of available spots on NSD to the NCAA and then only be allowed to sign what they have room for on NSD.  If someone leaves after NSD then they can sign another player to that scholarship after the player leaving has a cleared an exit interview with the NCAA.  That should be their punishment if they, for a second year in a row, have to pull a scholarship at the last minute or play games with the numbers to come in at 85.

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  1. Chris Tolliver had a series of very serious concussions. If he tried to step on the football field again, he’d be risking his life. The other two told the coach they’d prefer to play somewhere else several months ago. If Mickey Johnson clears, I suspect he might be asked to grey shirt but I’m not positive.

    p.s. notice we have 85 because our coaches were honest with the NCAA. So proud of our compliance. Aren’t you thankful for compliance preventing ineligible players from committing violations? I know I am!

  2. BTW, credibility and why you have none. Taking needless shots at Les Miles. That’s what makes you a troll and not someone who actually cares about a cause. Want me to take more needless shots? I assume that last one wasn’t too highbrow for you.

  3. Since this site is so quick to post news that supports the premise of oversigning, how about an article that provides a rebuttal to shots previously taken.

    Two articles still on page 1 speaking to Byrce Sherman’s treatment (a walk-on given a one year ride and then not renewed) but none noting that Spurrier is granting a scholarship to another walk-on. I will make it easy, you can cut and past this article from David Porter at GamecockAnthem.com.

    Wooten earns scholarship

    Senior kicker Jay Wooten was awarded a scholarship for his final season at Carolina Monday afternoon. The former walk-on received the scholarship based on his play on the field.

    “”We put Jay on (scholarship),” Spurrier said. “He’s going to be our kicker this year – definitely field goal and extra point and possibly kickoff, although Joey Scribner-Howard has done well.”

    Spurrier also took the time to explain the program’s policy on walk-on players earning scholarships.

    “We like to put walk-ons on scholarship,” Spurrier said. “It always seems a lot clearer when we put a player on that only has one year left. It’s usually easier that way. When we put players on that has two or three years left we always tell them that this is a one-year deal. We’re not obligated and you’re not obligated to three years or whatever like that. If we don’t renew a player it’s simply because it’s not available that year. If a walk-on player goes on scholarship he definitely knows it’s a one-year deal.”

    Spurrier was criticized by the media and opposing fans earlier this year when Bryce Sherman announced he was leaving the team because his scholarship was not renewed. Many said Spurrier was sacrificing Sherman in order to sign better players. According to the policy that was not the case at all.

    “If a walk-on player goes on scholarship, he definitely knows it’s a one-year deal,” Spurrier said. “When people say they can’t play and we’re getting rid of them, they’re telling a fabricated story like some of them do a lot anyway. The walk-on kids that get scholarships know they’re one year and if they’re not renewed, they’re supposed to understand that.”

    Naturally the players that are signed right out of high school do not have the policy. When a player signs to play football at South Carolina, he’s on scholarship until he graduates or loses it due being dismissed from the team or failing to qualify academically.

    “The guys we sign as freshmen coming in we’re pretty much committed to them,” Spurrier said. “For example, (former offensive lineman) Ryan Broadhead didn’t ever play here and he was on scholarship for four and a half years.”

    • Good luck with that. I’ll expect this article on the front page just after the one about the rash of players leaving OSU and other B10 schools late in the summer.

      • The rash of players. Ha. What a joke. You SEC oversigning supporters are delusional.

        A handful of SEC schools are abusing the system. Deal with it! And realize that the reason you are winning all these national titles is clearly due to the advantage that oversigning brings. Thank goodness there is a still a shred of integrity among most athletic departments and conferences that forbid this practice.

        This all started when Saban proved it worked during his LSU days. Now half the SEC league is doing it 100% full speed and the results are clear: it works! The last 5 BCS titles have gone to SEC schools. This is the reason and not because of the mythical “southern speed” crap that ESPN loves to taunt.

        Now the NCAA will start allowing 4-year scholarships specifically to undermine the effect of oversigning and the cheating SEC. Watch how the SEC advantage starts to fade over the next 5-7 years as a result.

        • “The rash of players. Ha. What a joke. You SEC oversigning supporters are delusional.”

          You may choose to ignore the facts, but I’ve been quick to point out quite a few transfers from “anti-oversigning schools.”

          “And realize that the reason you are winning all these national titles is clearly due to the advantage that oversigning brings.”

          I don’t know who “you” is… but the probable antecedent is “SEC schools.” If that is what you meant, then I should point out that Florida, a noted non-oversigning school, won the National Championship in 2006 and 2008. Perhaps SEC dominance is not due to oversigning. But don’t let facts get in the way… what you’re experiencing is called confirmation bias. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

        • Yes, you nailed it. It has nothing to do with talent or coaching or compition. It is “clearly due to the advantage that oversigning brings.”

          That is why Miss. State, Iowa State, South Carolina, Arkansas, Kansas State and Ole Miss all signed more players than Alabama but have not won a NC in the last 5 years.

          And why all those schools plu West Virginia, Oregon State, Oklahoma State, Louisville, Kentucky, North Carolina have signed more players than LSU and have not won a NC in the last 5 years.

          And why ALL those schools plus Arizona, USF, Texas Tech, Baylor, Syracuse, Oregon, Arizona State, Washington St., Missouri, Florida State, Purdue, Minnesota, Tennessee, Texas A&M, Michigan State, Oklahoma, Miami, Illinois, Colorado, Rutgers and Pittsburg

          Miss. State, Iowa State, South Carolina, Arkansas, Kansas State, Ole Miss,
          West Virginia, Oregon State, Oklahoma State, Louisville, Kentucky, North Carolina
          Arizona, USF, Texas Tech, Baylor, Syracuse, Oregon, Arizona State, Washington St., Missouri, Florida State, Purdue, Minnesota, Tennessee, Texas A&M, Michigan State, Oklahoma, Miami, Illinois, Colorado, Rutgers, Pittsburg have signed more players than Florida and have not won a NC in the last 5 years.

          Please keep telling yourself that so the SEC can continue to win NC’s.
          Or you could just make rules to outlaw football in the South.
          Or better yet, learn what it takes to win.
          On second thought you might have better luck outlawing football in the South.

          • The logic some of you oversigning apologists display is horrendous. This post is a good example of how a fan’s adolescent fervor for his team or conference can blind them from clear cut facts and logic.
            A competitive advantage does not ensure a national championship, rather, it is just an advantage. The schools you mentioned above that oversign but have not won a national championship, are all better as a result of oversigning. They still have to compete with Alabama and LSU; teams that do it much better. South Carolina and Arkansas are playing some of the best football they have in decades, maybe ever, as a result.
            What is your point? That oversigning does not infer an advantage? Of course it does. To argue otherwise is silly.
            Last night was the national championship between LSU and Alabama, where two exemplars of oversigning battled it out. Honestly, I was deeply impressed. Outside of a few great teams (Miami 2001, USC 2004 w/ Reggie Bush) during the last 15 years, those two teams were probably the most talented I have ever seen. Alabama’s D has to go down as perhaps one of the best Defenses ever in the 85 scholarship era. Coaching was excellent on both sides as well – particularly Saban’s Alabama squad.
            Looking objectively at the quality amassed for last night’s competition, what conclusions can we draw? The SEC has won the last 4 National Titles with oversigning teams. (Florida is known not to have oversigned). So what are the possibilties?
            1.) Coaches are better in the SEC
            2.) Players are better in the SEC
            3.) Oversigning is a competitive advantage that is significant enough to give the most competitive SEC schools an edge on the national stage.
            Although the coaches and players are excellent, there is no monopoly on great coaches or players in the SEC. Talent is distributed all over the nation, not just in the south. Besides, prior to oversigning, the SEC did not dominate on the national stage as they do now.
            My take away is that we are entering a new era now. Until the other conferences start oversigning (like the Big 10/12 and the Pac 10/12 and the Big12/10), the SEC will continue to win national championships. Either everyone does it, or they don’t. There has to be a national set of rules on this by the NCAA. The arbitrary conference by conference approach is creating inequalities nationally.

  4. You love to Bash LSU and the SEC but you ignore the joke of a program your Buckeyes are running. You have zero credibility and this article is a clear example as to why that is. You only choose to put what will support you crybaby cause!!! Here is some of the information you should have included.

    Chris Toliver suffered too many concusions during his carreer and is not going to be playing football for ANYONE. He can not get a medical clearance to play. Theriot and St. Julien requested a transfer due to the fact that they were not going to get any playing time. I am sure you are the kind of person who would love to sit on you A@$ and ride the pine, but they didnt want to. Cameron Fordham just transfered and did so for the same reason, he is too small and is not going to play.
    You bash Miles for Elliot Porter, But I have not seen you acknowlede the fact that Porter is currently on the team (as a walk on), after transfering to TWO different schools. Porter has said during numerous interviews that he was wrong and should have taken the gray shirt. Miles also admitted that his own handling of the situation was not proper and he, as a coach, will not allow it to happen again.

    You know if you want to scream for your “cause” then go ahead and do it, but at least be honest and fair. You are a good example of why scholarships are only good for one year. If I had hired you to write for me you would not have your contract renewed in year too. WHAT A BOOB!!!

    • ok. People get hurt and they decide to hang it up, not as many as Saban or Miles get rid of though. Good example of a player who SHOULD be placed on medical hardship though.

  5. In positive news Auburn gave schollies to 8 walk-ons.

  6. On Josh’s twitter account, he recently posed the following question:

    So if Duron Carter is cleared to play at Alabama this year,does that mean Danny Woodson Jr has to grayshirt?

    Apparently not. It seems Woodson has enrolled and is currently working with the team. This late in the game, I would have preferred to give that schollie to Lowest and greyshirt the freshman, but with no announced losses at this point it seems that another arrow has been shot into Josh’s numbers and how much he thinks he knows about Bama’s scholarship players.

    http://mobile.rollbamaroll.com/2011/8/31/2396904/danny-woodson-jr-joins-alabama-football-team

    • As I have said a couple of times. Alabama was in no danger of being over 85 or NEEDING to gray shirt because of numbers. By my count, which was going back and accounting for every player singed 2007-11, every player they signed could be on campus, enrolled and playing without the need for a gray shirt. Of course I could have missed a walk-on getting a scholarship, but I doubt it. I cannot remember exactly when I did that count, but I THINK it was before a couple of players transferred, but I could be wrong. In any case, Carter being eligible had nothing to do with Woodson’s status, and never has. Woodson’s delay was always about his own eligibility not Carter’s.

      But Josh likes to make insinuations regardless of the facts. I think that is why he has abandoned this site (1 post in Aug 2011 versus 20 in Aug 2010) it is much easier to throw around misinformation on Twitter without a clear written record of people calling you on it.

      • But Josh likes to make insinuations regardless of the facts. I think that is why he has abandoned this site (1 post in Aug 2011 versus 20 in Aug 2010) it is much easier to throw around misinformation on Twitter without a clear written record of people calling you on it.

        I think Catch5, Vesper and you have done a great job refuting the “assumptions” made by this site and staying on top of it. The hate shown from many of the posters against you posters became very obvious once knowledge and facts came into play and not just spin and hype.

        The sad part is, this site cou.d of been something good. I think there is real need for reform in the way the system works now, just not a blind change to the “Big 10 rule”. I think there are some great ideas out there that could really benifit the recruits and on scholarship players. I hope the powers that be that have control will discuss some of those options and fine tune then into by-laws. This site had some momentum until all the hate came from the “Anti-Oversigning” posters.

        Just kinda sad really…

        • If there wasnt a need to greyshirt any players, why has he been giving them out? He is not going to greyshirt 2 players (last year) for no apparent reason other than, SABAN HAS NO SCHOLARSHIPS TO GIVE OUT.

          • There are a number of reasons to gray shirt. Late qualifiers, per-existing injuries, academics, personal reasons, the kid is not quite ready for college, family issues etc.

            That is your problem, you have locked on to hating other teams, anything they do is wrong. Forget what is good for the kid, forget about anything but pointing a finger with righteous indignation.

            As I stated, Alabama was under the limit and had room for every kid that signed. EVERY SINGLE ONE. AS you put it that is a FACT.

          • As Gary said there are many reason you may want to greyshirt a player…

            To add to that list, you may see a player you want on your team… but you don’t have room in this class. You make an offer to him for Greyshirt to the next year. If he really wants to play for that team in can accept it. If he wants to play right away, he may not.

            I don’t see anything wrong with “oversigning” if the players that are over the limit are offered Greyshirts and know it and accept it. I would say Woodson is clearly in this category. Saban wanted him, but not more than they guys ahead of him or who he had committments to… rather than not recruiting him, he offered him a greyshirt. Woodson was good with that, he knew it, he accepted it… and in the end it worked out for him to be on the team his year and not have to greyshirt.

            This is what you would call, Good Team Number Management. Something the Big 10 can’t do or doesn’t do well. Personally, I think your Big 10 rule is hurting your recruiting and is a Bad rule, but that’s not the fault of the SEC nor the NCAA. Nor would I want to see a Big 10 rule adopted across the board… it’s just a bad rule…

    • He just came into camp today…. the greyshirt was lifted. Saban said:

      “We had a scholarship available. He was a grayshirt guy. But we had other promises that we made to other people in recruiting that maybe could’ve qualified or been available to come and participate on our team, so until we exhausted those possibilities, we had made a promise to Danny that we would bring him if we could, and when those things didn’t work out, we brought him in.”

      I think that speaks volumes, if you choose to believe it, which I do. He had made a greyshirt offer to Woodson who KNEW it and ACCEPTED it… He had other offers out that he HONORED, PRIOR to lifting the greyshirt from Woodson. I think Saban would have much more prefered to lift the greyshirt weeks ago to have Woodson in camp and at practice, but because of PROMISES he was going to HONOR… he couldn’t.

      To me, this is more proof that Saban is being up and up with recruits. I just don’t see how you could/would survive long springing greyshirt offers on kids that didn’t know about it up front. Maybe one or two and you’d be ok, but a pattern of it would be damaging to the future recruiting of your program…

      This is my opinion. I’m sure it can be “spun” anyway you want and will be by this site’s owner…

      • I am actually a little surprised by that article. Because there was no one left to qualify, unless they CNS meant Shannon Brown and it has been know for a while he did not qualify and in fact never signed a letter of intent. There was space for ever other signee. It was also known that Woodson was still waiting on eligibility issues. I suppose he ended up qualifying at the last minute and plans to gray shirt him were scrapped.

      • I like reading that. As I said above, I would have preferred to see Lowrey get a scholarship, but if this was the plan all along, it is better. Gary, I read this as there is a JuCo guy out there (possibly one that didn’t make it in his first time) that was close to qualifying and since it didn’t work out, there was a scholly available. It sounds like they kept Woodson informed on the matter and he was in on it from the start. No problem here.

        • Oh, yeah, I think he handled it very well and everyone knew what was going on.I was just more curious about WHO was out there, a JUCO is a possibility. It could be someone that was transferring or a freshman that has not signed and NLI, or perhaps he was leaving the door open for one of MLB loses to come back. But I was stumped as to whom that might be.

          Then again, it could be that Saban is planting some misinformation to mess with the media as he said he would after all the false reports of injuries. lol, now that would be funny.

          • I think they were hoping, thinking Alfy Hill had a shot to make it…. not a good one, but they still had to keep a spot until the last minute for him to keep their obligation to him. I would expect him to graduate in December and be part of next years class….

            The other thought is that they had an offer out to Jeremy Hill who was a LSU commit, and there was some rumbling that he wuold be reporting coming to Bama instead for some reason…. Anyway, there was someone that had to be ruled out before they could remove the greyshirt…

            • BTW, I think Hill has/had some legal issues dealing with a minor girl which has caused him to not be able to enroll… I haven’t done research, so please take that with a grain of salt and not as solid info…

  7. Attrition at Georgia! Is this shadiness?
    http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7033047/ken-malcome-derek-owens-transfer-georgia-bulldogs

    Seems like Georgia has had alot of attrition?!?!

  8. Charlie, this site is dead, Josh has thrown in the towel, flown the white flag. Two months since his last post and a month since the last comment before yours, and I can’t remember the last time Marc posted, and he was the only thing that was remotely credible about this site. It was only a matter of time before it died once the rampant hypocrisy and true agenda were exposed. The white knight Tressel is tarnished, the Camelot of Columbus has crumbled and in the end that was all this site was about to begin with. To paraphrase Dennis Green, “this site is what we thought it was,” a joke. And the funniest thing of all is that the we are having the last laugh at the anti-oversigning crowd.

    • He’s moved on to twitter… where he doesn’t have to be debated/faced with facts. It’s easy to mislead and lie in 144 characters or less…

      • You know Bathel, I’ve always shyed away from this line of thinking – opting instead to give Josh the benefit of the doubt on his extended absentses on this site and his minimal participation in the comments section. Well, today I signed up for a twitter account – in part to comment on Josh’s endless parade of spin and one-sided view of this subject (but mostly to keep up with all the sports writers and their quick hits – I don’t really like it but that’s the way things are going) Here is the account of our first (and apparently last) conversation there:

        Josh: …Ask him why he signed 12 more than he had room for on NSD…and then after spring camp 12 guys decide they want to go to Juco or FCS schools.

        Catch 5: For context, can you tell us how many left from schools that don’t oversign? Perhaps OSU, Ga, and Fl?

        Josh: completely irrelevant because those departures leave holes in roster

        Catch 5: So your problem is that Bama doesn’t suffer roster holes or that they kick kids off the team?

        Josh: my problem is with coaches purposely signing over 85 and running kids off to get best 85

        Catch 5: So guys that run players off but don’t oversign are ok?

        I assume that’s as far as Josh will allow discussion to proceed because he has now blocked me from his account.

        Hey Josh, if you want to refute these calls of you lying, misleading, avoiding debate, and generally being a coward, why do you duck the hard questions? Surely you can answer them when you yourself are constantly demanding it of Saban. I have never attacked you personally on this site, I have always tried diligently to respect your request to keep all discussion here on subject and not delve into such personal attacks or rants about irrelevant subjects. I have never cursed or written anything that could be construed as unsavory language in your forums, yet I get blocked from your twitter discussions? Why? I can only conclude that you have no answer to the questions, or you have no interest in the destination those answers would take you.

        Perhaps you will reconsider this course of action. Perhaps you will answer my queries and strengthen your arguments (or perhaps you will be persuaded by my arguments and be man enough to admit it). Perhaps you meant it when you asked for an honest debate in search for solutions to the oversigning problem.

        Of course, perhaps Bathel is right, you don’t want to be debated. Perhaps you just want to lecture. Perhaps you don’t really want to define and work towards solving a problem. Perhaps your true goal is what’s best for your team/conference, not what is best for players/college football.

        • Catch 5,

          It’s been clear for at least a year that Josh has no desire to debate the issue; only spin the info the way he wants to present it for whatever reason he has to do it. When faced with facts on this site, he has never been able to “win” the debate. He feeds of the uninformed by sensationalizing his message.

          I mean, if you listen to his spin… who wouldn’t be against oversigning and in a rage to put a stop to it. It’s only when you get the facts that you see what is really going on. Again, there is no such thing as oversigning. If there was oversigning, there would be heavy NCAA restrictions placed on that school. Josh just likes to use that term to make it sound like Alabama is “cheating”, because that’s the only way they could be winning…

          It’s sad, because there is some really good reform that could come out of a site like this. With open and honest debate… but alas, that was never Josh’s goal.

        • Haven’t you noticed that Josh no longer even uses a hash tag when he tweets? That way no one that follows him can see it when others easily refute what he says with facts. His blind minions only see his post and he can block users that disagree with him from showing in his stream. Josh’s influence in this debate has long been over, now he is preaching to the choir and trying desperately to get the attention of popular bloggers and writers, hoping they might agree with him and spread his message. But as you can see they all ignore him as well.

  9. Watching the Tennessee-Georgia game. They just said that Richt “ran some guys off.” This guy gets praise from Josh and the anti-oversigning fanatics?

  10. Well it has only taken half the season but I have finally finished updating the roster attrition percentages for the B10 and SEC teams with the fall rosters. There is a little bit for everybody in this one, but it will take some time to get it presentable. The biggest change is in how I calculated the percentages. In reviewing the original numbers I realized the percentages were not conveying a fair account of what I meant to show. I was using the class size to get the attrition percentages where a more accurate number would be the number that made it on the field. This reduced the divisor for teams with non-qualifiers and other signers who never made it on campus (which increased the percentage). Obviously this had more of an effect on the SEC than the B10, but not egregiously so. While I’m not releasing the full data at this time, I’ll leave you with this: the average team attrition for the 3 favorite targets of this site (Bama, LSU, and Ole Miss) is 35%. Anybody want to guess what the average rate is for this site’s 3 favorite examples of not oversigning? Hint: it’s 35%

  11. This site was always predicated upon the inherent moral superiority of Northerners over Southerners, with football as the relevant metaphor. That. of course, is sheer nonsense, but it fully explains J’s world view and epistemological filters. OSU’s corruption was the body blow to that premise, and conference expansion, which revealed the B1G and SEC have far more in common (good and bad) than J ever wanted to admit, was the kill shot.

    Once the main writers who originally embraced him figured out the full dimension of his agenda, they dropped him like a hot potato. And don’t discount the reasonable voices here raised in protest with respect to methodology and assumptions. I saw some good points here raised in opposition mirrored in some columns. They were reading.

  12. There are some real issues in college football. Oversigning is a non-issue. It is especially difficult to listen to the fans of the biggest cheaters preaching.

    Harvey Updyke was previously used on this website as a symbol of shame for the SEC and Alabama. Updyke’s actions represent Alabama and the SEC as much as Jeffery Dahmer’s murders represent Ohio State. I realize that isolated incidents will happen, but I do believe that systemic, detrimental, fanatical behavior should be addressed.

    Ohio State has one of the most aggressive, dangerous, and threatening fan bases in the country. Kirk Herbstreit moved to the heart of the SEC to escape threats and to ensure the safety of his family. Edward Rife has received death threats from Ohio State fans (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7131385/edward-rife-man-ohio-state-buckeyes-scandal-says-got-death-threats).

  13. Note LSU and Alabama have grad rates higher than the national average. Georgia does not.
    http://espn.go.com/blog/sec/post/_/id/31469/vanderbilt-has-secs-highest-graduation-rate

  14. So much for Big 10 moral superiority.

  15. Liar Meyer in talks with OSU?
    http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7254564/ohio-state-buckeyes-talking-urban-meyer-job-sources-say

    Bruce Feldman, in Meat Market, recounts bits of Jevan Snead’s recruitment process. Snead was committed to Florida, but was surprised to find that Meyer was also recruiting Tebow. Meyer told Snead that Tebow was being recruited as a linebacker. Snead obviously switched his commitment after being lied to.

    OSU only hires liars and cheats.

    • OSU hires lying Meyer… an attempt to win at all costs. And it will cost. Money. Integrity. Ethics. Lots of costs.

    • “I made this clear to Jeremy Foley (Florida Athletic Director), if I am able to go coach, I want to coach at one place, the University of Florida. It would be a travesty, it would be ridiculous to all of a sudden come back and get the feeling back, get the health back, feel good again and then all of a sudden go throw some other colors on my shirt and go coach? I don’t want to do that. I have too much love for this University and these players and for what we’ve built.” -Urban Meyer

  16. Hey Josh,
    It seems that you have retreated to the world of Twitter where you can spout your accusations to a welcoming audience and block anyone with a dissenting voice, but if you decide to return to posting on this site, can we expect to see an opinion on this:?
    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/bigten/story/2011-12-09/NCAA-ohio-state-two-staffs-urban-meyer-luke-fickell/51762334/1
    Do coaches count in oversigning? Ohio State has found a “loop hole” that allows them to operate with more coaches than the NCAA laws allow. Yes, they have gotten approval from the NCAA, and yes, it is technically therefore within the rules. But, as the article quote, “There have been some rumblings at other schools that the waiver gives Ohio State a competitive advantage because their coaching staffs must deal with bowl preparations and recruiting at the same time — with no additional people.” Hmmmm. Competitive advantage. That is something held up as a reason not to do other things. I wonder how that is seen here.

    And I realize this is not technically oversigning, but I feel it is relevant to the discussion as competitive advantage is really the main reason many are against oversigning. I would be interested in your opinion of this story, or if your view of competitive advantage has changed in this instance.

    • Oversigning was about morality before Tressel and OSU lied and cheated.

      Oversigning was about protecting children until Big 10 schools started truly abusing children.

      Oversigning was about competitive advantage until…

      Well, you see the point. And you probably see the hypocrisy.

  17. What’s the matter with this site? No new content since that fraud of a program called tOSU got caught? Of course, being one of the NCAA’s pet programs, they didn’t get anything close to equivalent to USC’s sanctions, even tho’ their HC was caught lying to cover up the facts and had roughly 40x the number of players taking benefits FROM BOOSTERS. USC was guilty of none of these salient facts.

    Nice to see such a cut and dry case of hypocrisy. The only thing that would top this would be PSU admins..

    • I don’t understand… how do OSU’s issues have anything to do with oversigning? And what does any of this have to do with USC?

      • Josh made this into an ethics argument by not being honest about shenanigans that go on in the Big 10 and by not honestly reporting USC’s recruiting numbers last year, even tho’ I corrected him 3 times on this board. If he wants to hide behind the “this board is only about oversigning” well, that’s a tad naive given that he portrays the SEC schools in such a negative light. The fact that he makes NO EFFORT to be honest with other school’s numbers makes him fair game imo for tOSU’s other issues.

        • Well the SEC is portrayed in a negative light because they’re the biggest users of oversigning. Does OSU oversign? Other Big 10 schools? I honestly don’t give a crap what conference they’re in – I’d just like to see the whole practice ended.

          But still, Reggie Bush’s transgressions and Tressel/OSU’s transgressions have nothing to do with oversigning. You certainly have a right to be upset about USC’s sanctions but I don’t see how it applies here.

          If you or someone else would like to create a site that you feel would be ‘less biased’ in your opinion, I think the public would welcome that.

          • There is no such thing as oversigning… every year ever school can play with 25 scholarships per class and 85 per roster. All teams have to verify this with the NCAA..

            What you don’t like is the use of grayshirts… which if done with the recruits knowledge is just fine. I would agree with you or anyone else that would like to implement rules that would make it much harder to hide a grayshirt offer. You can do this without killing grayshirts as the Big 10 rule does.

            Also, the big 10 rule does nothing to stop any unethical coach from running kids off or abusing medical hardships… if you want to discuss rules that would do this, I think you’ll find most posters on this site that object to Josh’s views would support you and have come up with some really good ideas on just how to do some of these things.

            When you look at this site, and Josh’s post and views… it’s not hard to tell he’s not really wanting change… he wants to bash the SEC. Which is fine, it’s his site… but as you can see, once posters with knowledge started posting on this site and shooting down his views with facts… he ran away and moved to twitter where he didn’t have to deal with debate…

          • As I said, Josh repeatedly misstated that USC oversigned last year when they did not. In fact, on 3 occassions I provided linked stats that refuted the crap that he was presenting on this board, and he never changed his stats here. At that point, it was clear that he was more interested in pushing a pro-Big 10/pro tOSU agenda rather than being objective and fair about oversigning. Sorry, but at that point, it all becomes fair game imo. If you’re going to openly bs about certain programs while always casting tOSU in a positive light, well guess what? You’re hypocrisy is gonna to take a major hit, regardless of whether tOSU’s issues were oversigning related or not.

          • The whole argument against oversigning relies on the assumption that it is unethical.

            I don’t believe oversigning is necessarily unethical. I do believe that pedophilia is unethical. The SEC excels (compared to the Big 10) in not having sex with boys.

          • Also, OSU does oversign. Josh’s numbers don’t reflect this fact (surprise!).

            I feel like Josh is trying to push his version of morality on the entire NCAA while turning a blind eye to the most egregiously immoral practices in the whole nation. It’s not just zealotry, it’s hypocritical zealotry.

            Josh may have convinced himself that he is fighting the good fight… but he is really motivated by hate and jealousy.

            • No they don’t idiot. Get your facts straight. OSU undersigns along with the rest of the big ten. Morons.

            • I don’t give two s***s about Josh. That’s my point (no offense intended to him). The topic should be Oversigning/Grayshirting, not Josh loves OSU and is biased.

              Why doesn’t someone take the reigns and actually investigate what is going on? A school like Alabama had 103 signed recruits for the past 4 years, not including 5th year seniors. Where did the other 18 go? Around 90 would sound reasonable because of transfers, med schollies. What about schools in the Big East, Big 10? Are they signing too many? Are they not given the same academic support as those on the two deep? Are those on medical scholarships really supposed to be there? There are too many questions and not enough answers.

              I understand (though befuddling as it is) that a lot of you think oversigning is fine. I think fans whose schools benefit from it are more fine with it than the general public. I don’t agree that it’s ethical or moral. It’s not illegal certainly and I agree with that.

              Just close the damn loopholes and put everyone on a level playing field. I don’t care what conference they’re in. 85 on scholarship, no more than 25 signed per year at all times period, 5 maximum early enrollees. Independent examiners have the say on whether a kid should be a medical scholarship or not. No more grayshirting.

  18. The logic some of you oversigning apologists display is horrendous. This post is a good example of how a fan’s adolescent fervor for his team or conference can blind them from clear cut facts and logic.

    A competitive advantage does not ensure a national championship, rather, it is just an advantage. The schools you mentioned above that oversign but have not won a national championship, are all better as a result of oversigning. They still have to compete with Alabama and LSU; teams that do it much better. South Carolina and Arkansas are playing some of the best football they have in decades, maybe ever, as a result.

    What is your point? That oversigning does not infer an advantage? Of course it does. To argue otherwise is silly.

    Last night was the national championship between LSU and Alabama, where two exemplars of oversigning battled it out. Honestly, I was deeply impressed. Outside of a few great teams (Miami 2001, USC 2004 w/ Reggie Bush) during the last 15 years, those two teams were probably the most talented I have ever seen. Alabama’s D has to go down as perhaps one of the best Defenses ever in the 85 scholarship era. Coaching was excellent on both sides as well – particularly Saban’s Alabama squad.

    Looking objectively at the quality amassed for last night’s competition, what conclusions can we draw? The SEC has won the last 4 National Titles with oversigning teams. (Florida is known not to have oversigned). So what are the possibilties?

    1.) Coaches are better in the SEC
    2.) Players are better in the SEC
    3.) Oversigning is a competitive advantage that is significant enough to give the most competitive SEC schools an edge on the national stage.

    Although the coaches and players are excellent, there is no monopoly on great coaches or players in the SEC. Talent is distributed all over the nation, not just in the south. Besides, prior to oversigning, the SEC did not dominate on the national stage as they do now.

    My take away is that we are entering a new era now. Until the other conferences start oversigning (like the Big 10/12 and the Pac 10/12 and the Big12/10), the SEC will continue to win national championships. Either everyone does it, or they don’t. There has to be a national set of rules on this by the NCAA. The arbitrary conference by conference approach is creating inequalities nationally.

  19. By my count, Urban did not run off enough players. He is already oversigned and still working on some more.

  20. http://www.cleveland.com/osu/index.ssf/2013/03/ohio_state_defensive_lineman_s.html

    Just saw this article… Very interesting. The article unambiguously demonstrates that OSU was oversigned.

    Urban had to shed an injured player to get to NCAA limits. Shame, shame. I have seen no anti-oversigning zealots criticizing this move. Pure hypocrisy.

  21. Good article about Saint Meyer:

    http://mrsec.com/2013/06/hernandez-gun-photo-punctuates-meyers-shameful-disciplinary-record-at-uf/

    Is oversigning as big of an issue as drugs? Murder?

    Glass houses.

  22. From the above article:
    Whether the coach likes it or not, Hernandez’s photo will pop into the minds of many a football fan the next time they hear Meyer talking about running a tight ship and teaching young men. History shows that’s all just a bunch of baloney.

    Another article relevant to the moral hypocrisy:
    http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_college_uf/2009/06/janoris-jenkinscharge-misdemeanor-affray-and-resisting-arrest-without-violence-for-his-role-in-a-may-30-fight-outside-a-down.html

  23. Another article about Urban Meyer, coach of the Ohio State Moral Authorities, coming out as OSU football makes news for all the wrong reasons, multiple arrests:
    http://www.outkickthecoverage.com/urban-meyer-gonna-urban-meyer.php#.Ue1hC2s7T18.facebook

    Tell me what is unfair about the article. His history of player arrests in Florida is undeniable. Let’s not forget the famous Janoris Jenkins comment: “No doubt, if Coach Meyer were still coaching, I’d still be playing for the Gators. Coach Meyer knows what it takes to win.”

    And this is the culture that Meyer is instilling. The culture of the OSU football program was already tenuous; Tressel clearly left a mess. It seems that Meyer is only making it worse.

    It is awfully difficult to take morality lessons from those who are so unbelievably corrupt!


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